Is Pebble Beach overrated ?

[JMEvensky]

Matt,

This debate has intersted me as a reader because I am currently in the process of deciding whether I fancy handing over five notes to play it later this year.

A recurring line from you in this thread has been: 'It's a pity so many play it only once or twice in soft conditions...'

What % of the time would you say Pebble Beach is fast and firm?

And if that number is a minority of the time, does it deserve to be rated on that basis - ie. what it can be when maintained in the right conditions - or should it be rated with reference to being soft and mushy if that is the condition it is presented in more often than not?

How a person values their money is not really anyone else's business.

However,you'll hopefully have the opportunity to earn another $500 in your life.Are you sure you'll have another opportunity to play PB?

Even if it's overrated,it's still one of a small handful of great golf courses.

[Matt_Ward]

Scott:

PB has had issues with turf quality over the years. It's not as blantantly inconsistent now as it has been but more often than not -- the turf conditions are often slow and plodding -- few times will balls bounce appreciably and as a result the architectural elements are often dim and not so bright as they can be.

I can say from the eight times I have played the course only 2-3 times was it really ideal. Even then one cannot expect the ball to be as lively on the ground as you would get with TOC and other bonafide links type courses.

Your best bet is towards the American summer months -- July / August -- but be aware that in June you do get a steady marine layer -- the annual June gloom.

In regards to how it should be rated -- if one were to hold that against PB then the same would need to apply to other layouts which are often far from being ideal when you visit them. Pinehurst #2 is another that comes to mind. Often the fast and firm conditons that really elevate the architecture are not present and many leave scracthing their heads and wondering what all the fuss is about. I think PB is a situation whereby turf conditions need to be analyzed and for people to just consider what others who have played the course far more times and n a much wider set of circumstances have personally witnessed. Hope the info I have provided helps -- is it worth the one time play -- depends upon your personal needs and bank book. I do concur with Jud you can simply head to Bandon and get more bang for your buck.

[Sean Leary]

Scott,

for those 5 notes you can play all four bandon courses in peak season and have beer money left over....

Other than playing 3 in one day, the math doesn't work on that one.

[Jud_T]

my bad...April

[Mac Plumart]

I find the bang for your buck comments interesting. 

You say the $500 to play Pebble is more expensive than the Bandon Dunes complex of courses, but those courses might not be a bang for everyone's dollar as compared to Pebble.

In my case, 2010 is booked up...but I am already plotting 2011.  I want to experience some great links golf.  It is my understanding that Bandon is a great American links style resort.  However, the bang I decided on is going to play the original links courses in Scotland.  So, I'll come back to Bandon later.

Perhaps if someone if used to playing links courses, maybe the appeal of golf on the Monterrey Penninsula is the bang they are looking for.  Not to mention, Spyglass is there...perhaps they could line up Cypress, etc.

Anyway, as has been said...telling someone else how to spend their money is tricky.  From everything I can tell, Pebble and the surronding coures appear to be a must play set of courses...as our the Bandon Courses, Scottish courses, etc. 

It is a tough life we lead, but someones got to play these courses and debate about them as well!!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt,

This debate has intersted me as a reader because I am currently in the process of deciding whether I fancy handing over five notes to play it later this year.

Scott, I think that's a seperate issue.

A recurring line from you in this thread has been: 'It's a pity so many play it only once or twice in soft conditions...'
Couldn't the same question be asked of ANGC in Dec Jan and Feb ?


What % of the time would you say Pebble Beach is fast and firm?

What % of the time is ANY golf course F&F ?
Mother Nature more than man often determines conditions

And if that number is a minority of the time, does it deserve to be rated on that basis - ie. what it can be when maintained in the right conditions - or should it be rated with reference to being soft and mushy if that is the condition it is presented in more often than not?

I think this group needs to read page 295 of Charles Blair Macdonald's book, "Scotlands Gift"

[Bill_McBride]

Cypress Point #3, #10, #17 for starters, not the strongest holes.  Any question Cypress Point is a 10, or Top 10?

The Old Course, #3, #6, #9?  Still a Top 10.

I frankly can't imagine a course with 18 world class holes.  It would be difficult to route or play such a course, there needs to be a rhythm to a golf course and in almost every case I can think of, it's the lesser holes that provide the breather.

At Pebble Beach there are 9 great holes on the water, plus #2, #3, #14, #16 are terrific holes off the water.  It's in my Top 15.

Bill

That still leaves around 5 holes you think are less than "terrific" at and probably "up for question" at PB

I agree that there's probably no such thing as 18 world class holes on any course but I certainly question more from PB than I do on any other in the Top15.

Sean

I actually didn't miind #10 and thought the greensite was really cool at #17 at CPC 

I went back and changed my post - tyop, I meant #18 at CPC, not #17 which I truly love for its eccentricity.

+++

I still think Pebble Beach is Top 15 or thereabouts, even with 5 so so holes, because (1) they are damned good "so so" holes, and (2) the world class holes are so fabulous that they outweigh all other considerations.

[Matt_Ward]

What would be interesting to know is if someone had only one round and came down to either PB or PD -- both being in firm and fast conditions -- which place would people choose ?

[JESII]

I've played Pebble but not Pacific - I would choose Pacific.

[Tim Leahy]

I think you have to include history when you talk about the greatness of a golf course. When I play Pebble I am constantly thinking about the great shots hit by Nicklaus, Watson, Kite, Tiger, and Irwin. Would Augusta be the great course it is without the Masters?

[JESII]

One of these things is not like the others...

in a sing song voice..