Spyglass

[Jim Tang]

It seems that most here think Spyglass has some wonderful early holes through the dunes and then moves inland to some pretty average golf holes.  I don't know.  I've never seen the property first hand, so I'll just go with that opinon.  Can someone explain to me why RTJ came up with that particular routing?  Is there land out there, more dunes and oceanfront, that could have been used, but wasn't?  Is there a way to "fix" Spyglass?  Or, maybe it doesn't even need fixing?  I need to be educated (probably in more ways than one).

[PThomas]

Jim , Spyglass has been discussed many times in the past, so if you dont get a lot of responses that could be why....

many people agree with your 1st sentence..although i remember saying the same to one guy who replied "Dont make that judgement until you've played it...I think its a great course.."

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Some of the par fours later in the round are very good....16 is just a great hole, although I belive they have lost a vital tree since I last played there.
The Ocean start is rather hard to keep up with and as such the course does indeed lose some of its general appeal.
As a tough course nothing changes once you head inland, in fact it gets harder from that point onwards.
Many consider it rather bland, something I have never really thought..I think the par fives are wonderfully challenging and risk reward holes where second shot placement can be very demanding.

Well worth playing for sure.

[Mike Wagner]

Jim,

Play t if you get the chance.  I don't understand why it gets no love around here.  Most people love the first 4 holes.  Yes, they're good.  They go through the dunes, out to the ocean...blah, blah, blah. #4 is one of the most unique greens you will see on the planet.

#2 is cool, but nowhere near the best par 4 out there.  #3 IMO is the weakest of the par 3's.  In fact, for all the grief downhill par 3's get around here, I'm surprised how no one has mentioned that it's a drop-shot.

The whole course is awesome...and it's TOUGH!  I have no idea why RTJ routed it the way he did, but it's pretty evident he made solid use of the dunes that was afforded.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I also think it it wonderful from beginning to end. My only critisism is there are 2 par 3's which are a bit alike. This is one tough golf course that I think reflects the best Trent Jones Sr did. It is also a great example of that eras style courses.

[paul cowley]

yea, I can change the routing for the better.....to the way it could have been.

but why?....now?

[Jim Tang]

Paul -

Well, I know the course gets hammered here a lot.  I was wondering why that is the case.  Some say the routing is the problem, so I was wondering if there were another way RTJ could have worked the course.  Did he screw up a great site?

It is good to see that some people here like the course.

[Peter Galea]

What Ian said.

[Ian Andrew]

my bad - just re-read the question

[Adam Clayman]

Jim, Back ten years ago, or so, there was a serious pitch cancre (sp?) scare. At that time I wondered what the course would look like void of trees. I speculated it might help the claustrophobic nature of the inland holes and provide water views from most holes. So, that is one possible fix. Architecturally there is really nothing horribly wrong with the forest holes. The greens are as good a set as anyone could hope for. They really are the test/challenge one needs to be up for when playing there. IMO

As for the land itself. The reason the routing is the way it is, as I understand it, was that was the parcel available. There's also a huge difference in the make up of the soil between the forest holes and the first five. Well, call it 4 holes and change, because the first hole doesn't get to the sand base until the green end. The soil in the forest is very clayey. Also, It didn't helped that Mr. Jones cleared and burned right there. Likely in the corridor created from the clearing. It's my understanding the ash from the burning likely created an impenetrable barrier which probably made the clayey soil worse for drainage. Ergo, all the problems they have during the At&t.

BTW, #8 is one of the best holes on the course and it's in the forest. #10 is also a personal favorite because of it's elasticity and it's green slopes subtly away.

[Mike Jansen]

Jim,

[Mike Jansen]

Sorry...

Jim, I have at Spyglass for the last 6 years so I can answer all your questions.  The story goes that RTJ wanted the first 5 holes to resemble Pine Valley, and the holes from there on through the tall pine trees to resemble Augusta National. 

There is some dunes-land still un-used surrounding the 2nd & 3rd holes, but in photos when the course was first built, houses already existed along the coast.  I'm sure all land available was used.  The first hole has to be the most difficult and dramatic starting hole in all of golf.  Someone called #3 a weak par 3??  It is one of the most amazing views and if you miss that green anywhere but pin high right, your bogey at best. 

I could go on...and on...  but trust me when I say that it definitely a top tier golf course.

 

[Mike Wagner]

Mike J,

I didn't call #3 a weak par 3.....I just think it's the weakest on the course....that's how much I love the golf course!!