[Troy Alderson]

Hi Jordan,

I did maintain my bunker edges in that manner at Kah-Nee-Ta Resort in North Central Oregon.  I had the leaway to manage the golf course to my liking since no one on the resort had any input or knowing what they wanted.  Some bunkers I even had a fairway HOC all the way around.  I like short grass in the in-play areas and "unkept" turf in out-of-play areas.

Troy "Go Cougs"

[Bill_McBride]

Hi Jordan,

I did maintain my bunker edges in that manner at Kah-Nee-Ta Resort in North Central Oregon.  I had the leaway to manage the golf course to my liking since no one on the resort had any input or knowing what they wanted.  Some bunkers I even had a fairway HOC all the way around.  I like short grass in the in-play areas and "unkept" turf in out-of-play areas.

Troy "Go Cougs"

Hey Troy, I knew I wanted to get over there before you left!

Where are you now, Cougar Town?   

[Troy Alderson]

Hi Jordan,

I did maintain my bunker edges in that manner at Kah-Nee-Ta Resort in North Central Oregon.  I had the leaway to manage the golf course to my liking since no one on the resort had any input or knowing what they wanted.  Some bunkers I even had a fairway HOC all the way around.  I like short grass in the in-play areas and "unkept" turf in out-of-play areas.

Troy "Go Cougs"

Hey Troy, I knew I wanted to get over there before you left!

Where are you now, Cougar Town?   

Hi Bill,

I am at Reames G&CC as the AGCS with Rich Flink and I love it.  Just waiting "patiently" for the right Superintendent position to open so I can get back to what I love.  I have leads in Burns, Lincoln City, and Lewiston ID.  It was a mistake to leave Kah-Nee-Ta to pursue sales, but we live and learn.  I still would love to own/operate my own golf course.  But the right course and owner could convince me otherwise.  Great to hear from you Bill.   FYI, I graduated WSU B.S. in 1991, Rutgers in 1995, and Marylhurst MBA in 2005 and still consider myself a Cougar (even during the bad years).

Troy

[jeffwarne]

Why aren't more bunkers maintained like these, with the fairwaysrunning straight into them?

Not coincidentally, these are perhaps two of the best courses in the country.

What can other courses learn from maintenance practices such as this?

Why aren't more fairway bunkers maintained like this?

This is absolutely wonderful.  I just love how anything not hit prefect gets into the bunkers, not just rough.  I don't like it when there is a lot of rough between a bunker and the fairway.  It almost negates the strategy of the bunker, because a ball won't even go in it unless it is flied in.  With the fairway running right into the bunkers, more poorly struck shots will wander into the hazard and suffer the appropriate penalty.  I just love this.

These pictures are of Chip's thread, btw, but I didn't want to thread jack.

I am in favor of less bunkers, and I prefer the fairway bunkers that remain to be in or near the fairway, and like fairway height grass leading to them. That said, many courses (particularly modern ones) have different varieties of grasses for fairway and rough so a super choosing to take it upon himself to turn rough to fairway will often have to returf.
 I think the fairway against the bunker in the second picture looks great.

I happen to think the first bunker/fairway looks contrived and unnatural. Looking at the super gnarly rough short of and past this bunker,this looks like a classic case of wanting to scream "get in the bunker" if it's my ball.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jordan,

I haven't read any responses to your initial post, but, the issue you bring up has been a sore point with me for decades and decades.

I believe that it's a shortcoming in American maintainance.

That the perception of the element of "unfairness" is at the root cause.

Many, if not most, want a safety net feature, ergo a buffer of rough before the ball enters the bunker.

The same buffer can be found at streams and ponds.

In the UK, in my limited experience, the fairways are mowed right up to the feature/hazard, whereas, in the U.S. buffer zones of rough are found fronting those features/hazards.


Those buffers of rough represent a victory of whining by the membership over the intent of the architecture/architect

End of rant

[Craig Sweet]

Patrick you said what I said, only better...

My experience has been that any effort to "trick up" the course is met with serious whining...

[Kirk Gill]

FWIW, from a maintenance perspective, it is associated with dollars and it is not only course specific, but bunker specific. I have tried to enlarge some fairway contours to spill into bunkers over the years. We have 100 bunkers on our course, and if I enlarged fairways to what they looked like in aerials from the 30's, I would increase fairway acreage by ~35% or more. Back then, the heights were much higher and required limited inputs (pesticide and fert) and no supplemental irrigation. If I enlarged by 35%, mowing times would increase (I can't stay ahead of play now), input $$ would increase, water bill could increase, aerification of fairways increases, etc. So, bunkers that are close to my fairway lines I have mowed closer to, and ones further away remain as they are. I have tried to assess design intent (what I think it was anyway), playability, and budget, then make contour line changes that fit accordingly.

Very interesting perspective, which in some ways connects the issue Jordan is bringing up with the whole idea of fairway narrowing which can result in bunkers that formerly were tied in with fairways ending up in islands of rough. If a course is faced with a decision between honoring the intent of the original architect's design or making a course work economically.......history provides many examples where those running the course have to make things work however they can.

Another note on this topic - look at the oft-discussed volcano bunkers Pete Dye uses. They are built with the specific design intent of not allowing rolling balls into the sand, both with grassing and with the mounded construction. It is apparent that some gca's and some designs intend for the hazard to be small, and not draw in shots from a wider area.

[Michael Rossi]

Jordan,

I haven't read any responses to your initial post, but, the issue you bring up has been a sore point with me for decades and decades.

I believe that it's a shortcoming in American maintainance.

That the perception of the element of "unfairness" is at the root cause.

Many, if not most, want a safety net feature, ergo a buffer of rough before the ball enters the bunker.

The same buffer can be found at streams and ponds.

In the UK, in my limited experience, the fairways are mowed right up to the feature/hazard, whereas, in the U.S. buffer zones of rough are found fronting those features/hazards.


Those buffers of rough represent a victory of whining by the membership over the intent of the architecture/architect

End of rant

Patrick

I agree somewhat to your comments about buffer zones but not completely.

Buffer zones along ponds and streams also serve a purpose from an environmental perspective The buffer zone stops debris, provides habitat, cools runoff and slows it down assisting with the bank stabilization and reducing the leaching of pesticides and fertilizers from entering the water course.

Perhaps an issue for playability but not necessarily of whining by member more from the environmentalist and perhaps the right thing to do.

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