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Alfonso Erhardt

Bogey and par
« on: January 15, 2010, 02:45:05 PM »
I am aware that bogey was used the way we use par today until it was replaced (I have read that about 1911 in the US).

I have found, however, articles where the word bogey is still being used way into the 1930s, at least in Europe.

Any ideas on when both the bogey and par words actually got their current meaning.

Thanks

Alfonso

Mike Hendren

Re: Bogey and par
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2010, 04:23:50 PM »
Sadly, these days we are mutually exclusive.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Joe Hancock

Re: Bogey and par
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 01:16:03 PM »
Sadly, these days we are mutually exclusive.

Bogey

I haven't been on here much lately, but I knew my good friends wouldn't let me down when it comes to silly responses to what appears to have been an honest attempt at a reasonable topic.

 ;)

p.s. to Bogey: I would have replied similarly had you not......
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Christoph Meister

Re: Bogey and par
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 12:03:06 PM »
I am aware that bogey was used the way we use par today until it was replaced (I have read that about 1911 in the US).

I have found, however, articles where the word bogey is still being used way into the 1930s, at least in Europe.

Any ideas on when both the bogey and par words actually got their current meaning.

Thanks

Alfonso

Alfonso,

even in the U.S. both terms Bogey and Par were still in use around 1930 as the two enclosed scorecards from Boulder Country Club, Co. (1929) and Shenecossett, Ct. (1931) are proofing....similarly the terms bogey and par were still used in Germany during the 1930s as the enclosed scorecard from Hamburg-Falkenstein (1934) proofs (here the word Bogey is translated as "Einheit").

Before WWI only the term bogey was used in Germany, it was after 1920 that the word Par first appeared on German Golf Scorecards..the scorecards then usually were indicating both Par and Bogey (Einheit).

From what I know about the history of the terms bogey and par the web-page http://www.scottishgolfhistory.net/bogey_par.htm
seems to give a good explanation:

"In 1890 Mr Hugh Rotherham Secretary of the Coventry Golf Club conceived the idea of standardising the number of shots at each hole that a good golfer should take, which he called the 'ground score.'  Dr Browne, Secretary of the Great Yarmouth Club, adopted the idea, and, with the assent of the club's golfers, this style of competition was introduced there for use in match play.  During one competition Mr CA Wellman (possibly Major Charles Wellman) exclaimed to Dr Browne that, "This player of yours is a regular Bogey man". This was probably a reference to the eponymous subject of an Edwardian music hall song "Hush! Hush! Hush! Here Comes the Bogey Man", which was popular at that time. So at Yarmouth and elsewhere the ground score became known as the Bogey score.

A 'bogle' was a Scottish goblin as far back as the 16th Century and a Bogey-man was a widely used term for a goblin or devil.  Golfers of the time considered they were playing a Mister Bogey when measuring themselves against the bogey score.

In 1892, Colonel Seely-Vidal, the Hon Secretary of the United Services Club at Gosport, also worked out the 'Bogey' for his course. The United Club was a services club and all the members had a military rank. They could not measure themselves against a 'Mister' Bogey or have him as a member, so 'he' was given the honorary rank of Colonel.  Thus the term 'Colonel Bogey' was born.  Bogey competitions are still played at many clubs.

Later Bogey was used as the term of one above Par (See history of Par below)."

For Par the page gives this information:

"Par is derived from the stock exchange term that a stock may be above or below its normal or 'par' figure.  In 1870, Mr AH Doleman, a golf writer, asked the golf professionals David Strath and James Anderson, what score would win 'The Belt', then the winning trophy for 'The Open', at Prestwick, where it was first held annually from 1861 to 1870.  Strath and Anderson said that perfect play should produce a score of 49 for Prestwick's twelve holes. Mr Doleman called this Par for Prestwick and subsequently Young Tom Morris won with a score of two strokes 'over Par' for the three rounds of 36 holes.

Although the first noted use of the word "Par" in golf was in Britain and predates that of Bogey, today's rating system does not and the Par standard was not further developed until later.  It was the American Women's golf association, who, from 1893, began to develop a national handicapping system for women. It was largely in place by the end of the Century.  The Men's association, founded in 1894, followed suit a few year's later.

In 1911, the United States Golf Association (Men) of the day laid down the following very modern distances for determining Par:

Up to 225 yards  Par 3  
225 to 425 yards Par 4
426 to 600 yards Par 5
Over 601 yards Par 6

As golf developed, scores were coming down, but many old British courses did not adjust their courses or their Bogey scores, which meant good golfers and all the professionals were achieving lower than a Bogey score.  This meant the US had an up-to-date national standard of distances for holes, while the British Bogey ratings were determined by each club and were no longer appropriate for professionals. The Americans began referring to one over Par as a Bogey, much to the British chagrin.

By 1914, British golf magazines were agitating for a ratings system similar to the US. However the Great War 1914-18 intervened and it was not until 1925 that a Golf Unions' Joint Advisory Committee of the British Isles was formed to assign Standard Scratch Scores (SSS), to golf courses in Great Britain and Ireland. Today, this committee is known as the Council of National Golf Unions (CONGU). It is the Golf Unions of each country (and not the Royal and Ancient) who determine Pars and Handicapping."

I hope this helps, maybe anyone out there knows something more?

Greetings

Christoph
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 12:07:45 PM by Christoph Meister »
Golf's Missing Links - Continental Europe
 https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/wales-2
EAGHC European Association of
Golf Historians & Collectors
http://www.golfika.com
German Hickory Golf Society e.V.
http://www.german-hickory.com

Alfonso Erhardt

Re: Bogey and par
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 12:13:23 PM »
Thanks for the explanation and nice scorecards, Christoph.

Regards,

Alfonso

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