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Mike Jansen

The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« on: December 18, 2009, 02:13:09 PM »
This golf course lies in the Feather River/ Truckee area of No. Cal. and has been outta commish for the last few years. 

For those that played it, I would like to hear some general feedback: What you thought about the golf course/ resort.  Things you loved, holes you absolutely would not change, and then those that could have been improved. 

Thank You.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 02:28:14 PM »
Famous for the FLW inspired clubhouse:

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2009, 02:50:29 PM »
Famous for the FLW inspired clubhouse:



Oh my god, it's Rivendell ;D

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2009, 02:56:31 PM »
FWIW, I believe that clubhouse was designed for Nakoma CC in Madison, WI, a few blocks from my home.  FLW had a strong connection to Madison and the surrounding area.


Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2009, 03:13:41 PM »
Some random comments I found doing a search here:

From 2002:
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Surprisingly I played a new course last year that incorporates funnel greens into a number of holes.  The course was The Dragon golf course in Northern Caliornia by architect Robin Nelson.  I despised it!    I'm do not remember what the yardage is at The National but The Dragon played about 7100 yards and burning 3 irons into up hill or down hill greens made it impossible.

From 2006:
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The Dragon is an amazing place but one of the hardest courses I have ever played.  It is so unfair and punishing that I could never understand why anyone would ever play the course for a second time.

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The Dragon is a brute!! I guess I'm one of the few that played it twice though even though I went thru a few golf balls.  Not a very walkable course, its built on a pretty severe site and I think the owners wanted a punishing course. They were successful on that count. It is also a very beautiful course with some interesting holes. Did I mention its a brute?  The Dragon is probably an hours drive from Truckee, but I'm guessing.

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The Dragon was recently featured in a story about courses that are too hard to play...ball eaters.  I played it once and it isn't that enjoyable. 

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Coyote Moon is very interesting but even more difficult than the Dragon. I actually enjoyed the Dragon even though it was hard and it had the best greens in Nocal when I played it which was two years ago.

Plus a couple of questions about the course in a Q&A with Robin Nelson:  http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/robin-nelson

Quote
10. In California, you built the Dragon at Gold Mountain. The developer did not play golf and gave you specific instructions to build the hardest course possible. How did you go about meeting that request (i.e. what are some features that you employed that you might otherwise not have)?

I’ll give you the short answer. The long answer may be in my book someday. First off, the property is absolutely beautiful and lends itself to mountain golf that requires some in-depth planning and clever routing. The course was already routed by a planning firm when they brought me in, but I was able to use my influence to move things around a bit to use the natural contours a bit better. That was the first challenge. There are golf holes everywhere there, and even better home sites. Just by definition, the property was going to produce a challenging course. It was a constant battle to keep ‘playable’ in the vocabulary when dealing with this project. I don’t believe it played as difficult as people made it out to be, but it had its moments. The difficulty came mainly in the green speeds. The greens were designed for about 8 to 10 on the stimpmeter, but the speeds ended up well above that, which was unfortunate because golfers do not like to four putt or watch their balls roll off the green.

As most golf course architects know, once the Owner takes control, your influence can only go so far. And the Owner reveled in the fact that its off the chart slope rating and reputation made it a must-play course. (That’s where my book would reveal the truth behind the scene). The original Owner is gone, and only recently has the superintendent finally been able to obtain the materials and equipment to groom the putting surfaces properly to allow the course to play more like it was designed. It was in great shape last summer and was playing as I hope it would. We have numerous plans to do some tweaking like tree removal and revising a couple greens this year if all goes well.

11. How did the collaboration at the Dragon at Gold Mountain work out with LPGA great Patty Sheehan?

Great – I made a friend for life. Don’t forget that Patty Sheehan is one of the greatest players in the game and her input here was invaluable. In reality, our courses are generally very well received by women; Patty added great strategic value and helped to make it more playable for all levels of golfers. Her overall value, though, was to educate the Owner and convince him to tone it down a few notches. Working with Patty Sheehan was one of the best moments in my career.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2009, 03:17:21 PM »
Brad,

You are right!

Nakoma Clubhouse (1924-2002) was, under Wright's design, a clubhouse for a golf course in Madison, Wisconsin. It has been built in the Sierra Nevada's of California near Lake Tahoe as Nakoma Resort & Spa.. It is surrounded by Gold Mountain, a residential real estate development by the Taliesin Architects. Nakoma Clubhouse was adapted to current use and building codes by Arnold Roy and John Rattenbury. A comparison with Wright's original plan and what was built indicates enlargements and alterations that are significant revisions which make it necessary to deny Wright's authorship. It's location in a climate far from that for which it was designed must also be noted. Why, when a client asks to build a "Wright design," do they then ask for changes?
 
http://www.franklloydwrightinfo.com/wrightxtaa.html
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2009, 05:36:57 PM »
This golf course lies in the Feather River/ Truckee area of No. Cal. and has been outta commish for the last few years. 

For those that played it, I would like to hear some general feedback: What you thought about the golf course/ resort.  Things you loved, holes you absolutely would not change, and then those that could have been improved. 

Thank You.

To be honest, I have not been there.  I have driven through the area and played White Hawk a couple of times.  Frankly I feel the area is over populated with golf courses for the number of visitors.  Graeagle, Plumas Pines and White Hawk add up to plenty of golf, not to mention Grizzly Ranch which is altogether another story.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Aidan Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2009, 05:49:57 PM »







David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2009, 06:28:46 PM »
Mike Jansen -

I live in San Francisco but have not played The Dragon either. The course is in a somewhat remote location relative to most of the other courses in and around Lake Tahoe/Truckee. As Lynn S. notes, there are number of good courses in that general area that are closer to where most of the population in that area either lives or vacations.

The course had a reputation for being VERY difficult and challenging. I, for one, am not inclined to travel out of the way to play a course that will beat my brains in. ;)

DT
 

Joel Zuckerman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2009, 06:38:29 PM »
I played and enjoyed The Dragon on 2 separate stay-and-play visits, probably 5 or 6 rounds in total, back a few years ago..maybe '03 and '05 is when I visited, if I had to guess.  Wrote about it in a range of publications--here's the gist of the story as it pertains to the golf course only from the Hilton Head newspaper:  (In other words, nothing on the clubhouse, lodging, FLW influence, etc.)


The Dragon, designed by Californian Robin Nelson, is an absolute stunner.  The opening tee shot plunges a hundred feet to a bunker-menaced fairway.  The final approach must climb through the sky, hopefully finding purchase on a well fortified green lodged dramatically uphill from where the approach was launched.
   Most average players will add another hundred blows between this first and final salvo, and each strike takes place on an incredibly varied golf tapestry.  The Dragon breathes fire from about 7,100 yards from the tips, with a course and slope rating of 74.2 and 147, respectively.  The thinner air at altitude helps the ball travel a bit longer, but most players will have plenty to contend with at the penultimate box, 6,750 yards, rated and sloped at 72.5 and 139.
   Nakoma offers an unusual feature on the driving range.  On weekends, there are masseuses at the ready, offering chair massages to players whose tee times are looming.  It’s a unique and welcome amenity, as any relaxation technique is welcome prior to the thrill ride in the offing.  The course is a green grass roller coaster.  It winds, bends, twists, climbs and plummets between imposing stands of hardwoods.  The golf ball must fly over water and wasteland, avoiding ravines and lurking woods.  Terrifying as this description may appear, this vagabond golfer has experienced few courses with such an unrelenting beauty, challenge and variety of holes.  The Dragon is undeniably tough, but absolutely terrific in the same breath.
   The one shot holes are gauntlets.  They aren’t overly long, but trouble in every direction save one.  It’s the overlying theme of the course in general, as spray shots are stray shots, and only lucky bounces after a mis-hit will keep penalty strokes off the card.  If the ball stays in play then there are reasonable chances for pars and birdies to be found.  To this end the Dragon is really a woman-friendly facility.  Much of the bite and forced carries have been surgically excised from the forward tees, and landing areas and greens are mostly generous.  Many women, at least those a notch above abject beginner, shouldn’t stagger off the final green in a daze.  But long and consistently wrong is another matter.  It’s not a good course to be having a bad day.


Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2009, 06:50:17 PM »
I played the course twice, once about 5 years ago and then the year before last. I think last summer was the first it was not open at all. I enjoyed it very much from the second set of tees, I heard it was very difiicult and built that way from the back tees. I wish someone would buy it and fix it up. It made a great addition to the other four courses in the Graeagle area. Never really marketed great to Sacramento/ NoCal area. Actually only an hour from Reno, too.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2009, 10:09:10 PM »
Famous for the FLW inspired clubhouse:



It's not inspired, it is an original FLW design.  The plans where for another golf course just never built.

As for the golf course, to me it's a disaster.  As many people know I'm friends with Robin Nelson and yet this course is no fun and I can't imagine why anyone would want to play here for a 2nd time.  Robin had some difficult times dealing with an owner who didn't play golf, was cheap and who's marching orders were to build a hard golf course.

He sheds some light on the situation in his GCA interview.
http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/robin-nelson



Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2009, 11:30:18 AM »
Joel,

See my post #5 above. The original FLW plans were changed by the new architects. It may be similar on the outside but it's different on the inside.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Matt_Ward

Re: The Dragon GC @ Nakoma Resort (No. Cal
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2009, 12:28:35 PM »
Gents:

I've played The Dragon and while it has its moments in demands -- if anyone believes it's THAT hard then frankly they need to hit a few more balls. There are a few holes of note -- but nothing that would mandate someone making a special effort to play there from beyond 100 miles. Other options in and around the Sacramento area are more inviting -- ditto for those courses that are to the east of its location as you head into Reno.