Trump Scotland

[Dean Stokes]

I just read the article in Links Magazine regarding Trump's venture in Scotland. Forget how good the golf course is going to be and how beautiful the coastline of Scotland is.......

450 room hotel
500 houses
950 vacation homes
accomodations for 400 staff

Aside from the world economy being in the tank, nobody anywhere buying second homes, and taking into account that the weather is hardly condusive to vacationing in Scotland, what on earth is The Donald thinking? Who is going to buy/fill these properties and rooms?

Does anyone have photos of what is actually happening in the dunes? Thoughts? Insight?

[Matthew Petersen]

I just read the article in Links Magazine regarding Trump's venture in Scotland. Forget how good the golf course is going to be and how beautiful the coastline of Scotland is.......

450 room hotel
500 houses
950 vacation homes
accomodations for 400 staff

Aside from the world economy being in the tank, nobody anywhere buying second homes, and taking into account that the weather is hardly condusive to vacationing in Scotland, what on earth is The Donald thinking? Who is going to buy/fill these properties and rooms?

Does anyone have photos of what is actually happening in the dunes? Thoughts? Insight?

I was amazed that the bad economy merited little more than a paragraph's mention in the article. Even if he wins the battle to get it built isn't there a potentially much bigger battle to make it profitable?

[David_Tepper]

Dean Stokes -

There have been multiple threads discussing this project (and the soap opera it has generated) here over the past 2-4 years.

The website for the project (www.trumpgolfscotland.com) is certainly worth a look. There is no denying the dunesland for the golf course is spectacular.

I share your skepticism regarding the real estate development aspect of the project. My guess is it will be a decade or more before most of the real estate gets built.

DT   
 

[Tim Pitner]

I haven't been following this project very closely but I was surprised to see Martin Hawtree's name attached to it.  Wasn't a young Fazio the original architect Trump had in mind?

Nice edition of Links Magazine, btw--Prairie Club, Cabot Links, Lahinch were each mentioned or discussed plus a feature on affordable public golf, including Rustic Canyon, Wild Horse, CommonGround, etc. 

[David_Tepper]

Tim P. -

You are right. The younger Tom Fazio was originally named to be the GCA for the course. However, the switch to Hawtree was announced well over a year ago.

I am not certain why the change was made. One possibility (my theory!) was that having a British-based GCA involved with the project would help ease things thru the planning approval process.

DT

[Niall C]

DT

I suspect there were several reasons for the switch including young Fazio appearing on local television and stating that the dunes were so natural and conducive to golf and that all that was needed was to put in the irrigation and lay down the cart path. I'm not joking about that either, thats what he said. I saw it and nearly choked on my coffee when he said it.

I suspect Mr Trump quickly realised he needed someone who had links experience, and that fact that Martin Hawtree is the R&A's man of choice at the moment probably didn't do any harm.

As for the battle, he has his planning permission, now he is angling to get the neighbours CPO'd. Once he has that, and hopefully over the next couple of years when the property market improves, he'll start motoring ahead. The hotel will be principally for the oil business, the holiday homes will eventually be sold to Aberdeen residents and the timeshare will disappear like snow of a dyke (thats a wall BTW).

Niall

[Tim Pitner]

Thanks David and Niall.

The Links Magazine article reminded me very much of a Local Hero-style scenario.  If only Donald Trump had the sensibilities of the Burt Lancaster character . . .

[Jim Tang]

I believe Trump has stated his ultimate goal is for the golf course to host The Open at some point.  Having Hawtree on board cannot hurt in that regard considering his close relationship with the R&A.

This seems like a curious project and I wonder how it will all turn out. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Hi Dean,

I suspect this project will take several years to a decade to get anywhere near the intended size but this would have been the case even in the good years. Is everyone in the US so negative about the economy? If so the sucicide rate must be real high!

Hawtree is a good if somewhat safe call. It will be interesting to see what he produces as this is a potential reputation maker/breaker project.  Weather here is not as bad as the reputation, we are going through the first really prolonged (more than a day) bad weather period in over a year where I am.

Maybe Donald was thinking that Scotland is the number one destination for golf in the world and he was going to give it the number one resort

Jon

[Scott Macpherson]

Forget all the Media and Mr Trump are telling you about this being a 'golf development'. It is a 'real estate development' ...with golf.

Nobody can predict how the course will turn out. I am sure Mr Hawtree is giving the golf component his full attention, but sometimes other factors can derail an architects efforts. I have family in Aberdeen, and while this development is great news for the local economy, there are many cynics in the Aberdeenshire who doubt the overall success and sustainability of the venture.

I can't see the Trump course ever hosting an Open Championship – even with Mr Hawtrees connections. If the Open ever moved north of St Andrews, my bet would be on Castle Stuart hosting it first.

Enough Crystal ball gazing though.... best of luck to them.

[Tyler Ince]

I saw this tract of land when I played Cruden Bay and stayed with a friend that lives in the area. Before even knowing Trump had bought the land I was driving down the highway thinking it was perfect links land. The windswept dunes were absolutely spectacular.

Apparently it took forever for Trump to get the approval to develop that spot for environmental concerns....only happened once he removed someone from the local government and placed a puppet bureaucrat to help grease the approval process.

I have not read up on it and didnt know the scale of the development.  I will have to ask my friend in Aberdeen as he was applying for a GM job there as that is his background and the Trump course would be a good move for him......if it ever gets built.

TI

[Brian_Ewen]

Tyler
It would best doing a bit of research before posting on something you clearly have no idea about .

[Tyler Ince]

Sorry Brian.  Just going by what my friend that lives there told me when I visited last year. Thought it was inside information seeing as he lives in Cruden Bay. Definitely not going to research it myself....have better things to do like plan my golf trip to NZ.

[Jim Nugent]

Bryan, what would Tyler learn if he did the research? 

[Shane Wright]

Brian,

The key word in Tyler's post was "apparently."  He was not stating anything as fact.  And I highly doubt that Tyler is going to touch this topic with a ten foot pole. 

[Niall C]

Forget all the Media and Mr Trump are telling you about this being a 'golf development'. It is a 'real estate development' ...with golf.

Nobody can predict how the course will turn out. I am sure Mr Hawtree is giving the golf component his full attention, but sometimes other factors can derail an architects efforts. I have family in Aberdeen, and while this development is great news for the local economy, there are many cynics in the Aberdeenshire who doubt the overall success and sustainability of the venture.

I can't see the Trump course ever hosting an Open Championship – even with Mr Hawtrees connections. If the Open ever moved north of St Andrews, my bet would be on Castle Stuart hosting it first.

Enough Crystal ball gazing though.... best of luck to them.

Scott

That is exactly what I have said on all the other threads on this topic, this is a real estate project with the golf course tacked on. Thats not to say that Trump doesn't have big plans for the course or that MH won't do a good job in designing it, but its incidental to the economics of the project.

Given Trumps modus operandi in dealing with the environmental issues, I have to wonder what impact it will have in future for similiar contentious sites.

Niall

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