Tilly's New Castle and Sunnehanna in Pennsylvannia

[tlavin]

I've been told by and informed source that these are two gems that don't get a lot of discussion, especially New Castle.  Who has played these courses?  What's the skinny?

[Rory Connaughton]

Terry:

  I have not been there but I am told that the greens at New Castle are fantastic.

[Billsteele]

Terry- New Castle has fabulous terrain, a great set of greens (including a wonderful punch bowl on the short 11th) and one of the coolest par fives I have seen: #5, a decent length par five which bends left until about 100 yards from the green where the fairway is interrupted by a 40 foot drop over a wide creek that runs in front of and to the right of the putting surface. The approach shot, downhill and sometimes semi-blind, has a high pucker factor. There are some other very fine holes here with neat design features: a short par four with a fairway split by a creek which is a true risk/reward hole (challenge the creek and have a short approach with the optimum angle, lay up on the open side of the creek and the approach has to deal with a devilish bunker on the front left of the putting surface), another short par four with an approach to an elevated green with a wicked false front. This is a terrific golf course and a true hidden gem. It's tucked in extreme Western Pennsylvania close to the Ohio border...which may explain why it flies under the radar (the Youngstown/New Castle metroplex is not exactly a destination spot).

I have heard good things about Sunnehanna and have been trying to get there for the past couple of years. Next year it will happen.

A very doable and enjoyable doubleheader would be New Castle (Tillinghast) and Youngstown (Travis/Ross) in the same day.

[tlavin]

bump

[PThomas]

Sunnehanna is pretty good but not great...will post more later

[Bob Trebus]

I played both courses. Both are real gems.
Sunnehanna is now going through  a total restoration of the original Tillinghast design. They have already started removing trees (about 200 so far). Greens are some of the best I have played and have been enlarged to Tilly's originals. The course has many of Tillinghast's bunkering characteristics which he is so famous for. There are doglegs, double doglegs, cross and boomerang bunkers that will be fantastic when restored. All in all the restoration will make Sunnehanna one of Pennsylvania's finest. The Tiny Tim is worth the trip alone. For more information you should read their history book. Lots of historical photos. There is also a reason some of the best amateurs have played in the Sunnehanna Amateur.

I agree New Castle is a great hidden course. All that has been said is true. Lots of fun to play. The only negative is that like so many courses there are to many evergreen shich have overgrown.
Bob Trebus

[TEPaul]

Bob Trebus:

As with a number of other significant courses that undergo restorations I am very interested how the club and their restoration architect handle the difficult dilemma of what to remove (or not) of the work of other architects who did redesign work to original architecture over the years.

It seems like Sunnehanna has chosen to take the course pretty much back to just Tillinghast and with this particular project I endorse that. Another Tillie, Philadelphia Cricket Club that has some redesign work by the same redesign architect (Flynn) as Sunnehanna has apparently chosen to be somewhat more circumspect in their restoration approach---or at least that was the thought going in before a total restoration plan was developed.

[Bob Trebus]

As I understand it the course looked at the Flynn changes and will keep one green he changed because they don't know
what the original green was like. The other changes by Flynn were examined and considered. It was decided that these changes forced more of an aerial game. This is what he was hired to do: close the entrances. The Tillinghast holes were designed to promote the ground game. All are open in the front except the Tiny Tim. The course has a significant number of great fall away greens. The expansions have brought back some terrific contours.
 
Before the plan was adopted they developed an extensive time line that included Tillinghast's drawings and architectural plan, original notes from Emil Loeffler, Flynn correspondence and his plan as well as some correspondence from William Gordon. They have an extensive collection of photos from throughout there history beginning in 1928-1929.
One thing that Brian Silva did was measure out the original diagram to put things in the plan that were proposed by Tillinghast but not in the final work. Some were eliminated, in all likelihood because they were overbudget for the clubhouse.
Hope that helps explain what they did.
 Bob

[Philippe Binette]

Felt Sunnehanna had a lot of potential... some bunkers have dissapeared (can still see the shaping) and the course needs some serious chain saw work.

[PThomas]

Sunnehanna is pretty good but not great...will post more later

a fine routing, terrific par 3's but i found the par 5s somewhat disappointing

i believe they had started their work there when i visited a few years ago....it would be interesting to see what else has been done since then and what else if anything they plan on still doing....

[Mike_Trenham]

New Castle - While my memory is spotty as we did not play the holes in the normal order, I agree that hole #5 was really unique as were the other holes that played around that bowl.  

The other hole that stands out to me is the down hill par 4 that I believe tilted hard right to left the whole way including the green.  This looked like a hole that could be a real challenge in firm conditions.