Opinions on Machrihanish Dunes post opening

[Rob Rigg]

Based on the info coming in this course should have its own thread.

Castle Stuart has received major props - a box office success apparently (I certainly want to see that movie). And it already has two or three threads singing its praises.

Mac Dunes - seems to have a brilliant setting, but too many environmental restrictions to make the course truly playable (based on the posts thus far) - a box office flop?

Colin has weighed in on Mac Dunes - others please do so as well as you roll off the course.

- Are there too many blind tee shots?
- Is your ball really lost just off the fairway?
- Are the green to tee transfers too long to be enjoyable?

As a fan of Tetherow and Bandon Dunes, I was hoping that Kidd and team could do something with this amazing site - but it seems like they may have been handcuffed?

What are the positives? Aside from Aidan Bradley's brilliant photos . . .

[Tom_Doak]

I have not seen the course yet, but based on early reviews they may have opened it too soon (to coincide with the Open being over at Turnberry).  That might explain some of the complaints about conditioning, and that it's a matter of time as much as it is about the environmental restrictions.  But, I don't know their constraints.

[C. Sturges]

I walked the property after it was seeded and thought the course looked very good!  I did not notice any big distances from green to tee.  There were some blind tee shots and approach shots, but this is what makes links golf, and golf overseas so much fun to me.  To many courses in the states are unwilling to give this extra challenge, and it is only truely blind the first time you play it. 
I am excited to hear more reviews of the course and to get over to play it.  Not sure if I will make it over this year or not.
Play on,
Chris

[Rob Rigg]

Just trying to get the Mac Dunes posts on a Mac Dunes thread.

There is already enough CS debate going on over on those threads.

Colin:

I'm in Machrihanish right now and have come across no one in the last week that shares your caustic, obviously-biased view of Machrihanish Dunes.

The media day was Tuesday and the combination of howling wind and driving rain drove most players off the course after nine holes, including all the R&A members in attendance. Writer David Desmith, however, played all 18 and carded an 8-over par. I think, he's about a 10-handicap. No one I have talked to who has played the course has said, "bring lots of golf balls." Maybe you and your friends just had a bad day. That happens.

The members of the media to whom I talked all enjoyed the course; they played the other nine upon arriving the previous day and all said they look forward to returning when the course is more mature.

One BIGGA bigwig said repeatedly he could not believe what a wonderful job head greenkeeper Keith Martin is doing with the turf. He didn't add a caveat about the unbelievable restrictions that includes no water or pesticides on the fairways or rough, he just said the turf was wonderful.

I had dinner with Adam Lawrence Tuesday night after playing Machrihanish Golf Club, Monday and he talked about how he liked the course.

This is the final paragraph of his online piece:

"Those who venture to Machrihanish Dunes at the moment will need to abandon their preconceptions as to what a modern golf course looks like: it is nothing like that. Nor is it much like an old course nowadays; I suspect actually it has much in common with what new courses might have looked like towards the end of the nineteenth century. But the location is phenomenal, the project admirable, and the golf memorable. The course has many hurdles to overcome, of which the opening is really only one of the first, but it deserves to succeed."

Sounds like praise to me.

Maybe, just maybe, all these people saw the course for what it is while you were blinded by an obvious bias (and maybe even an unhealthy worship of Gil Hanse) and are unable to give a honest opinion. In the process, you've made yourself look incredibly ignorant.

Anthony
 

[Brian Phillips]

Here is the whole piece:

Stormy opening at Mach Dunes

23 July 2009

 

David McLay Kidd’s much-awaited Machrihanish Dunes course on the Kintyre peninsula in Scotland opened on Tuesday. Unfortunately for the guests at the opening ceremony, which GCA attended, the Scottish weather didn’t cooperate: the sunny conditions of Monday were replaced by constant rain and a strong easterly wind.

Nevertheless, your intrepid reporter ventured out onto the links, and can report that the course does indeed occupy some of the most stunning terrain any golfer could ever hope to see. It is pretty extreme stuff though: the restrictions placed on the architect by the course’s planning consent – which essentially banned any disturbance of the land at all, except for the creation of greens and tees – combined with the site’s big dunes, means radical greens, more blindness than most golfers would see in a year and some hefty walks between holes to avoid sensitive areas. It starts from the very beginning: the first green, a punchbowl, is set in a deep hollow and is completely blind from most of the fairway, and the theme is continued for much of the round.

Everything at Machrihanish Dunes is predicated around the course’s environment. Fairways, except in a few areas, were simply mowed out of the existing grasses with no tilling or seeding; thus the sward is not yet the carpet of fescue one might expect on a course of this kind. No herbicides are permitted, so only time, foot traffic and the attentions of the sheep who will patrol the property will eliminate the weeds and undesirable grasses. Mowing the rough is prohibited, so those sheep can’t come too soon – at the moment, any ball hit in the rough will most likely be gone.

Southworth Development, the American firm that bought a controlling interest in the project earlier this year, has said it is in for the long haul: it will need to be. Support from the Scottish Executive and its agency Highlands and Islands Enterprise, should hopefully ensure that getting to the course will become easier in the near future: improved ferry services for Kintyre, both from Scotland itself and from Northern Ireland are currently under discussion.

Those who venture to Machrihanish Dunes at the moment will need to abandon their preconceptions as to what a modern golf course looks like: it is nothing like that. Nor is it much like an old course nowadays; I suspect actually it has much in common with what new courses might have looked like towards the end of the nineteenth century. But the location is phenomenal, the project admirable, and the golf memorable. The course has many hurdles to overcome, of which the opening is really only one of the first, but it deserves to succeed.

Adam Lawrence

A full review of Machrihanish Dunes will appear in issue 18 of Golf Course Architecture.

Here is the link:

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Stormy-opening-at-Mach-Dunes/1576/Default.aspx

[Chris DeNigris]

Anyone play it yet?

[Mark Pearce]

Not a first hand experience, but the brother of one of my partners played there last week.  He's a scratch player.  He enjoyed it but commented that it's obvious how the limitations on what they are allowe to do in terms of maintenance affect the way the course plays (though time may help there).  He also commented that if you're off the fairway, you've lost your ball.

[Tom_Doak]

When I played the old Machrihanish course years ago, one of the coolest things about the course was how the traffic sorted out the maintenance of the roughs.  If you missed your tee shot in a common way ... a bit of a push or pull, or even a fairly big slice on the holes into the wind ... you were likely to find that the rough there was trampled down and you could find the ball pretty easily.  On the other hand, if you hit an awful shot, say a snap hook, that ball was nearly always lost.

Of course, unless there is traffic, that maintenance meld doesn't stand a chance, and that could be a problem for Machrihanish Dunes if they are really not allowed to maintain the roughs at all.

[Cristian]

When I played the old Machrihanish course years ago, one of the coolest things about the course was how the traffic sorted out the maintenance of the roughs.  If you missed your tee shot in a common way ... a bit of a push or pull, or even a fairly big slice on the holes into the wind ... you were likely to find that the rough there was trampled down and you could find the ball pretty easily.  On the other hand, if you hit an awful shot, say a snap hook, that ball was nearly always lost.

Of course, unless there is traffic, that maintenance meld doesn't stand a chance, and that could be a problem for Machrihanish Dunes if they are really not allowed to maintain the roughs at all.

This winter I was told that the same goes for Prince's golf club in kent; In winter the rough there is not too bad, but in summer miss the fairway and you're in the waist -high stuff (if you have somehow found your ball). Apparently environmental restrictions disallow maintaining of rough there as well. For me Prince's remains a great winter course though! Perhaps we should all head to Mac Dunes November-March?

[Mark Pearce]

Christian,

I think that's true of just about every links course in the UK.  Even at Muirfield the rough isn't a problem in winter (last February I birdied the 3rd, having missed the fairway by at least 30 yards on the left, 5 months later I wouldn't have even bothered to look for the ball) but it really gets up in the summ er, particularly wet warm summers like this one.

[Chris DeNigris]

OK, I'm playing there a week from today 

And I'm really jonesing for some first hand commentary...Anyone?? Please, I need a fix!

They've added some more photos to their website:

http://machrihanishdunes.com/gallery/Machrihanish-Dunes-October-2008

Brian Morgan has some really good shots to go with some additional pics from Aidan..

Quite an amazing contrast to CStuart and even to Mach Old.

Maybe a little Askernish-ish but with a little more polish...but alas, no visible sleepers 

[Robin_Hiseman]

Chris

I played a couple of rounds there a fortnight ago.

The comments made thus far are accurate.  The rough is really penal and they are severely restricted with what they can mow.  It is a very rustic experience, with a lot of blind shots and some very demanding carries.  First time out, you will frequently be hitting into the unknown and it pays to be as close to the centre line of play as you can to account for some very random kicks off of unseen dunes.  If you get out of position you are well advised to take your medicine and just get back into play, where you can see it.

I really enjoyed it, because it is exactly what I was hoping it would be, a throw back course.  Although I've never been there, there are clear similarities with the kind of wilderness experience you would get at a place like Askernish, or Sand Hills.  It is very peaceful and totally unpretentious in its presentation.  It is also very empty just now.

One could be critical of the 'blind' fairway contouring, but without knowing what restrictions were placed on them, it is unclear what other options they had to circumnavigate the protected habitat areas.

The greens are a real feature, clearly more undulating than the Castle Course IMHO.  However, as many of them reside in gathering hollows, they are quite receptive and I found them to be a lot of fun to play to and putt upon.  They' re pure fescue, so they are not especially quick.

They have just shephereded a flock of sheep onto the course, who will be the only means of cutting the deep rough.  They had already left their mark on the 12th green when I was there and were taking a fancy to the blow out bunkers.  Once they have munched their way through the roughs it will be a much more enjoyable test for the average golfer.  For now, it is very demanding, perhaps one of the three hardest courses I have played.  Apparently, several vistors have said that they really enjoyed the course, but will leave it a few years to come back, once the conditions have eased up somewhat.  Enjoy it for what it is now, a very rugged, wild test.

I should also point out that the staff at Machrihanish Dunes were exceptional.  You could not wish for a warmer, more friendly welcome.

I also stayed in the B&B you're staying in Chris.  It was great.  You'll be very comfortable.

Happy to give more feedback if anyone asks.

Robin

[Mark Pearce]

From the photos on the website and the course tour, it looks fantastic.  At less than £100 for a day in peak season it also looks quite reasonable.  I'll have to get out there sometime.

[Adam Lawrence]

I attended the official opening in July, after the Open, and played the course in a lot of wind and (on the second day) driving rain, which made assessing it a wee bit harder.

I'm very glad to hear from Robin that the sheep are now on the course. They are simply not allowed to mow the roughs at all, so the sheep are essential. It is wide, but it's also windy, so the current lost ball rough is pretty hard going, especially if, like me, you lack control with the driver.

Of a 250 acre property, apparently only 7 acres was in any way disturbed during construction. Everything else is just mowed out. The result is that the fairways contain a lot of weeds - daisies, etc - that will only be replaced by fescue over time as foot traffic and sheep kill them off. There is tons of blindness and the greens are _wild_.

But I really want it to succeed. Partly to prove that you can still build golf on perfect natural sites, partly because it is such a beautiful place, and partly because the people are lovely.

The Old Clubhouse pub which is the centrepiece of their facilities in Machrihanish village is a really good addition to the area too. As will the Royal and the Ugadale hotels be when they are done.

It is much more like Askernish than I had expected in terms of being a long-term work in progress. You can't go there expecting everything to be right from day one, because the environmental restrictions make that impossible. It will need to evolve, just as, I'm sure, new courses did a hundred years ago.

[Chris DeNigris]

Robin, Adam- Thanks for the first hand input. Just what I needed as I pack for departure 

I've been kicking myself the last 3 years for not making time to get to Machrihanish on my only previous trip to Scotland. With the new course opening this year it made it an easy decision to make the detour to Kintyre.

Looking forward to the rough and rugged nature of the links..I don't mind the difficulty (what's a few more lost balls), it's more the experience rather than the score for me on these types of golf adventures.

But I guess a caddy would be a good idea for the first round 

Thanks again!

Kyle H- Is this the only course you didn't play on your trip?? 

[Tom_Doak]

Those latest pictures look like there is some terrific stuff ... though it appears that many of the good pictures are NOT taken on the playing line to the hole.

Eager to hear your report, Chris.  Is there any way you could look up our good friend Melvyn and take him over there?  I'd be glad to pay for him to go see it just to see what he thinks of the "old school" construction.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle H- Is this the only course you didn't play on your trip??  

The west coast was not in the offing, sadly. Hopefully I'll get there in a few years when time and $ (and my impending spousehood) allow.

Edit: I'm assuming you weren't referring to Kyle Harris...

[Chris DeNigris]

Wow....what a wild ride this course is!

And an amazing contrast to its next door neighbor.

The land is something special, that's evident in the excellent website photos. The routing is quite good, despite a handful of longish walks between a few holes. Forewarned, these strolls don't seem too bad, given the gorgeous surroundings.  The fairways are ultra-rugged and virtually all humpy and bumpy...big humps and bumps. The extraordinarily wet summer has probably helped the grow in but the fairways still played pretty firm despite buckets of rain a few days before. The greens are definitely Kidd-esqe, but I didn't think over the top. Not very fast but very fun to putt. A great mix of holes, some brutish 4s, some really good  driveable 4s, mostly short 3s but well defended by the greens, mounds and sand. The bunkering is beautiful and truly fits and blends with the contours of the course.

The rough is everywhere and can be brutal...but the sheep are making some headway there. We played in near-perfect conditions with just a gentle breeze, so we managed to avoid most of the danger. The more normal prevailing winds will definitely wreak more havoc and create more frustration and lost balls...but a small price to pay for this magnificence.

The current front is tighter and tougher than the back but the two nines will eventually be switched when the new clubhouse gets built. The existing 8th and 9th will make a phenomenal future finish.

Nearly a polar opposite to Castle Stuart, but both are fantastic in their own right and great new additions.

Mach Dunes will do one other important thing- ensure more golfers will make the delightful trek across Kintyre to finally play Old Mach. There's no reason not to make the trip now.

[Chris DeNigris]

I know it's a little off the beaten path but has anyone else been out there yet?

It's been 2 months and I still keep thinking about this place

[Robin Doodson]

I had the absolute pleasure of playing Mach Dunes with 'Keeper of the Green" Keith Martin a couple of weeks ago. The greatest challenge there is educating golfers to leave there pre-conceived notion of what makes a well maintained golf course behind and let them embrace what is truly magnificent about Mach Dunes. much has been said about the "weeds" on the fairways. Now the definition of a weed is a plant which is growing in an undesired situation. this is not the case at mach dunes as every plant is desired to be on the fairways as without them they would blow away. i can tell you that i did not experience one bad lie in 18 holes and was even able to hit every green on the back 9 in a 40mph wind. The course is extremely playable and sooooooooo much fun. it really is an adventure and having played Royal Troon and Turnberry on the previous couple of days i can tell you that mach dunes was by far the best golf experience. An experience is what it truly is from when you jump on the little 12 seater plane in Glasgow to when you touchdown in Campbelltown 20 minutes later, it seems like you have gone back in time. Even in extremely windy conditions i managed not to lose 1 ball in the whole round. i actually played troon, turnberry and mach dunes with the same ball which must be some kind of record. the fescue greens were as good if not better than what i played on at Barnbougle in July. It is a massive challenge growing fescue on the west coast of scotland but keith is doing an excellent job of it. i really hope more guys go there with an open mind and a positive attitude and embrace what is a truly great and natural place to play golf.


yours  aye,

robin