[Dan Herrmann]

It's almost (US) Thanksgiving and snow is probably right around the corner in the NE.  Days are short and the weather brings a chill.

Time to sit back and learn more about GCA.

What will you be spending time on this winter  in the GCA area?

I have a couple books to read that I'm borrowing from our Head Greenkeeper.  I'd also like to get out to some more local "gems", just to walk around and take in more architecture.  (To me, this is like going to your local art museum and taking in Eakins, Wyeth, and others).

How 'bout you?

[Jaeger Kovich]

I plan on learning how to operate a bulldozer, excavator, and back hoe.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I'll be in Arizona avoiding the winter once again.

[JC Jones]

how to spell ... (just busting)

[TEPaul]

"What will you be spending time on this winter in the GCA area?"


Danderino:

I'll be spending time this winter on some GCA areas and ideas that are ahh....sort of....ummm....meta...ahhh, ummm...metaph....phh...phhhiis...aa..cacaca...ahhh....whatever...

[Ben Sims]

Dan,

I'll be digesting four books.  I like to read books on any subject in pairs of two from a modern author and an "old school" author. 

Pair 1) Scotland's Gift and The Evangelist of Golf

Pair 2) Golf Architecture in America and The Captain

As far as what I would most like to learn this winter.  It's really just a continuation of what I started trying to find when I joined the site and started getting into this stuff.  I want to begin finding what it is that links every piece of great golf architecture.  But it'll probably take longer than this winter to figure it out.

[David Stamm]

Dan,

I'll be digesting four books.  I like to read books on any subject in pairs of two from a modern author and an "old school" author. 

Pair 1) Scotland's Gift and The Evangelist of Golf

Pair 2) Golf Architecture in America and The Captain

As far as what I would most like to learn this winter.  It's really just a continuation of what I started trying to find when I joined the site and started getting into this stuff.  I want to begin finding what it is that links every piece of great golf architecture.  But it'll probably take longer than this winter to figure it out.

Fantastic line-up, Ben. It doesn't get any better than these when digging into architecture.

[TEPaul]

Ben Sims:

When you read Geo. C. Thomas Jr's "Golf Architecture in America" pay very careful attention to his chapter towards the end entitled "Arbitrary Values."

At first it seems a really odd idea and proposal to suggest that putts count as half strokes, and at first it might seem to most that Thomas didn't particularly like putting but when you see his ultimate point about golf course architecture strategically and economically with half strokes for putts it is pretty brilliant and shows what an out-side-the-box thinker and innovator Thomas really was.

He published his book in 1927 and C.B. Macdonald published his autobiography, 'Scotland's Gift Golf" in 1928 and it would appear what Thomas said in this chapter "Arbitrary Values" that had to do with some fascinating strategic and economic results in architecture from half strokes for putts didn't make much of a favorable impression on Macdonald or went over his head somehow. Another reason may've been Macdonald had gone on record as being opposed to what he called "innovation" with golf, golf rules and golf architecture. You will see what Macdonald said in his book about it. You will also see in Macdonald's autobiography he didn't think much of the distinction Max Behr made at that time about the differences and reasons for the differences of golf the game versus golf the sport.

[Ben Sims]

Tom Paul,

I've read several places where Raynor is considered an apprentice of Macdonald.  I haven't really read anywhere that asserts that Bell was Thomas' apprentice, but for the purposes of my next point, I'll consider him the closest thing.

In my opinion, there are two ways to study the innovation of Thomas vs. the traditionalism of Macdonald. 

1) What Michael Robin calls George C. Thomas' Eden hole, the 6th at Riviera.  The innovation of pushing the strath into the middle of the green, whilst keeping intact the slope of the original, is as creative a take on the hole as you can find.  In his usual reverence, Macdonald's Edens are much more traditional.

2) The "apprentices" of each of the men.  Juxtaposing the careers of Raynor and Bell might as well be a juxtaposition of Macdonald and Thomas themselves.

I am looking forward to learning more about the men and their architecture.  Thanks for the inputs.

Ben   

[Mike McGuire]

I want to learn from the experts. Doak or someone should do an online course for GCA'rs that are willing to pony up a few bucks. The tech part exists and can be free. Not that we want to be architects, to late for that, just better informed amateurs. 

[Carl Rogers]

The most mysterious element for me in this field is the dynamic between rainfall, temperature, length of season, turfgrass type, soil & sub-soil types that create different playing conditions ....

Closer to home here in eastern Virginia, we have approximately 16 inches of rain over the yearly average.  Riverfront will be soggy for a good while.

[David Stamm]

Bell was already established to some degree before forming the working relationship he and Thomas had. He had worked at Pasadena GC (now Altadena GC) as greenkeeper in 1914, had worked under Willie Watson for a few years and was working on Castlewood alone when he met Thomas. He was in much more "advanced" state than Raynor when he met Macdonald.

[Ben Sims]

Bell was already established to some degree before forming the working relationship he and Thomas had. He had worked at Pasadena GC (now Altadena GC) as greenkeeper in 1914, had worked under Willie Watson for a few years and was working on Castlewood alone when he met Thomas. He was in much more "advanced" state than Raynor when he met Macdonald.

David,

Thanks for that tidbit.  Let the learning commence...

Ben 

[David Stamm]

BTW, the take on the 6th at Riviera by Michael is spot on. I couldn't agree more. The 16th was inspired by the Short and the green on 15 is a version of the Double Plateau green, just to name a few other examples there. If memory serves, the green on 15 is one of Michael's favorites. It is quite a cool green! But these were loosely based, not out and out copies or attempts at copies. These were the way other architects like Thomas saw them.

[Ben Sims]

BTW, the take on the 6th at Riviera by Michael is spot on. I couldn't agree more. The 16th was inspired by the Short and the green on 15 is a version of the Double Plateau green, just to name a few other examples there. If memory serves, the green on 15 is one of Michael's favorites. It is quite a cool green! But these were loosely based, not out and out copies or attempts at copies. These were the way other architects like Thomas saw them.

David,

That's a great way to help me along in what my comparison is.  Mr. Robin pointed it out to me once online, and then in our round there.  It reinforced what I've seen T-Doak write before; that there's not a ton a new things under the sun in GCA.  Thomas knew this well, and adapted template holes to a new innovative front.

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