Colt course confusion

[Scott Warren]

I just went looking for a list of Harry Colt courses so I could further my enjoyment of his design, having played Royal Zoute, Trevose, Canterbury, Rye (what there is left of Colt), R. Wimbledon and - most lately and greatly - Swinley Forest.

I found this and thought I had hit the mother lode

http://www.coltassociation.co.uk/courses.php

But it seems there are plenty of courses there that even I can identify as not being Colt's.

At first I thought it might be anything designed by a firm he was involved with, but then I saw courses designed by MacKenzie when they worked together are supposedly listed with an asterisk.

Among others, it is claiming NSWGC and Royal Cinque Ports as Colt courses...

It all seems kind of strange to me. What's the story?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Scott as far as I know this is about a decade old and has something to do with the then Secretary of Stoke Park and probably  Mr Peter Pugh who was just as accurate in the now two books he’s done on Colt.  As far as I can tell the site has never been updated but they did get an inter club competition going with a fine silver cup.

More courses have come to light since then. However Deal puzzles me and I think I read somewhere he had sent some plans to Australia?  When was NSWGC built – could that have been Alison?

They list some  “Not located - further research needed” courses

FBD found Dundee
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39682.0/

Another genius on here has outed Southend on Sea as Belfair’s Park.

At least one of the others is quickly revealed by Google.  Fun to try and find these, a search of local papers would tell us more about the origins of the courses.

Downe    (West Kent is in the Village of Downe?   http://www.wkgc.co.uk/  )
Lampeter  (http://www.cilgwyngolf.co.uk/course.html is in Lampeter?)
Lockinge  (was a private course near East Hendred where he played after leaving the Sunningdale area. I thought I had this one but an old mans memory let him down).
Lelant   (surely  http://www.westcornwallgolfclub.co.uk/  ?)
Sandwell Park   (  http://www.sandwellparkgolfclub.co.uk/    by 1946 it was more likely Morrison)
Waddesden  ( Could this be it?  Or were the original 6 holes for Rothschild a missing Simpson? http://www.chilternforest.co.uk/history.htm )

Most of these lists are compiled from Old Adverts for Colt and Co.  Colt was not given to Hyperbole but  it’s clear that sometimes courses were remodelled and other times new and sometime his role is not that clear e.g. The Addington and Pine Valley.  There were many other courses where he contributed something but not a whole course e.g. Fulwell and Upminster.  I had hoped the site would help galvanise research instead it’s become fossilised.


I’ve only looked at the GB&I ones.  Anyone want to do the same for the overseas?

[Scott Warren]

Thanks Tony,

NSWGC was originally MacKenzie, but then got extensively remodelled by Eric Apperly. To the best of my knowledge, most of the Aussie/NZ courses that site claims as Colt are in fact MacKenzie.

The site also lists Duff House Royal, which I think is the one FBD discovered, as MacKenzie. What a dog's breakfast!

[Phil_the_Author]

Scott,

As one who has been involved with attempts to define Tillinghast courses, I can assure you that his list was probably a best effort for the time. Research is needed on all of the great architects; in fact one thing that todays architects can and should do is keep a list of every course that they have worked on so that posterity can have this information if & when it may be needed.

For what its worth, the Tillinghast Association is about to unveil a new website that will have an incredible amount of new information including  updated lists of everything that we can identify that he worked on. This will also include the REMOVAL of several courses previously listed by ourselves and others, as well as a number of NEW and previously unknown Tilly original designs!

[Tim Johnson]

Colt did the Hamilton Golf and Country Club in Ancaster, Ontario, Canada. Generally rated in the top 5 courses in Canada. They held the Canadian Open in 1919,1930,2003 & 2006. The pros actually rated it one of the best they played in those years. It has a bad date right after the Open so getting the top pros is a problem. It is one of my favorites to play.

[Ian Andrew]

All I ask of any society is an accurate list of courses based upon research.



Tim,

Ever see the drawings for Hamilton?

[Tim Johnson]

Ian
I have taken quick looks at the one on the club house but never really studied them.

[Tom MacWood]

I haven't checked lately but the Colt Association used to include all of Mackenzie's courses. At one time I was on their mailing list as their contact for Ohio State GC. Lets just say they had a very broad view of what courses are associated with Colt.

[Dick Kirkpatrick]

Ian;

Forget about plans for Hamilton, I would love to see Colts plans for St. George as it is listed as one of his designs in Canada, and further to that I think the Colt Association says it no longer exists.

Good list of courses, however inaccurate.

[Neil_Crafter]

Alison designed Huntingdale GC in Melbourne from topo maps without having set foot in Australia, mailing in the design. Colt was never happy apparently with this sort of design process.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I’ve only looked at the GB&I ones.  Anyone want to do the same for the overseas?

I've glossed over the Stockholm Golf Klubb history and there is no evidence whatsoever of Colt involvement. However, in recent years the club have linked the design to Colt. The cub's website lists Colt as the designer, which is quite appalling in my opinion. Did Colt ever travel to Sweden?

I posted part of an article a while ago, it was written by Peter Fjällman who is a Swedish architect.

"The first layout for an eighteen hole course at Kevinge was made by Jochum Beck –Friis but was soon rejected and J Nicholson from Hawtree and Taylor was called upon. But the board was not satisfied with the suggestions so more experts came to the site. A German architect , Emil Schultz , who at the time worked with B von Limburger made a plan and also J.S.F Morrison, an associate of H. Colt visited the site and presented a plan. But the committee were not satisfied so they started to make their own plans and Sundblom had a big influence. Finally  “suggestion “ nr 12 was approved by the board and work stated on the new course."

"We may assume that the final routing was a compromise of all the different suggestions and Sundblom probably was the man behind the mix. Sundblom went over to England to negotiate with contactors and seed merchants. During these business related negotiations, Sundblom had the opportunity to visit and study the classical courses of the United Kingdom. Finally the contract to build the course went to Carter & Co and Fred Smith and George Maywood came over to Stockholm. ( G Maywood stayed as the greenkeeper up to 1938 ). In the autumn of 1932 the course was open for the members and the initial game was played between Edward, the Prince of Wales and the Swedish Crown Prince, Gustav VI Adolf. (Stockholms Golfklubb 1904-1954)"

"Sundblom became the clubs secretary 1933 and stayed in that office up to 1951. He was also the clubs treasurer from 1947 to his death in 1958. The importance that Rafael Sundblom played for Stockholms Golf Club is without question but his involvement in the creation of the golf course at Kevinge also meant the start of a new career, as golf course architect. The coming years saw Rafael Sundblom becoming more and more involved with golf design and it is safe to say that he became the first modern golf course architect in Sweden."
 

[Scott Warren]

Scott,

As one who has been involved with attempts to define Tillinghast courses, I can assure you that his list was probably a best effort for the time.

I take your point, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to publish the list. If there isn't at least a high degree of accuracy and notations on courses that aren't certain, what does the list achieve.

For people who don't look at it with some prior knowledge or an inclination toward looking further, they are likely to trust The Colt Association (pretty official title that suggests a level of authority) and end up thoroughly misinformed.

I think that's pretty disappointing.

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Tony,

I can list the Spanish ones:
 
 - Madrid (Puerta de Hierro) - 1912-1914
 - Seville (Tablada) - 1921-23
 - San Cugat (near Barcelona)  - 1916-1918
 - Santander (Pedreña) -  Opened in 1929
 - Malaga - 1928-1931

Regards,

Alfonso

[Scott Warren]

Sant Cugat looks good, Alfonso. Have you played it?

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Scott,

I have not. It is the only one of the Colt courses in Spain I haven't played. They say, however, it has really changed over time and currently it does not really resemble the original one.

In Spain, Pedreña is the most authentic Colt you can find.

Regards,

Alfonso

[Christoph Meister]

I’ve only looked at the GB&I ones.  Anyone want to do the same for the overseas?

I've glossed over the Stockholm Golf Klubb history and there is no evidence whatsoever of Colt involvement. However, in recent years the club have linked the design to Colt. The cub's website lists Colt as the designer, which is quite appalling in my opinion. Did Colt ever travel to Sweden?

I posted part of an article a while ago, it was written by Peter Fjällman who is a Swedish architect.

"The first layout for an eighteen hole course at Kevinge was made by Jochum Beck –Friis but was soon rejected and J Nicholson from Hawtree and Taylor was called upon. But the board was not satisfied with the suggestions so more experts came to the site. A German architect , Emil Schultz , who at the time worked with B von Limburger made a plan and also J.S.F Morrison, an associate of H. Colt visited the site and presented a plan. But the committee were not satisfied so they started to make their own plans and Sundblom had a big influence. Finally  “suggestion “ nr 12 was approved by the board and work stated on the new course."

 

Hi Donal,

Emil Schultz was not an architect but a golf course constructor/builder working together with Bernhard von Limburger and also Colt & Morrison in Germany during the late 1920s and early 1930s. Please find enclosed my photo of the original plan drawn by Emil Schultz. As far as I know it is the drawing of the plan submitted by Bernhard von Limburger to Stockholm GK. You can well recognize the shape of the land but as far as I know the current layout of the 18 fairways is completely different from this plan. Will come to Stockholm GK this summer and check out for myself...