What's wrong with Barona?

[THuckaby2]

JB - I'm not thinking just ANY bunker... but a really gnarly, deep, big, rough one that you DON'T want to get in.  Maybe move it a LITTLE closer to the green, also, such that it won't be so easy to blow over....

Hmmmm... to me this sounds really interesting.

TH

[Richard_Goodale]

I like the tree too.  After a gentle opening tee shot it sneaks out in front of you and says "You're not in Kansas anymore!"  A bunker would be too easy and too much sameness.

Rich "Two out of Two Birdies on the 1st" Goodale

[RJ_Daley]

Well, as I told Todd, the only thing 'wrong' with Barona IMHO was the blasted rock in the crook of the right front greenside bunker on #8.  As I have said many times, I have a pet peave about rocks located within surrounds of greens in any form (walls, ornaments, penal features, etc).  But as I found out Saturday when I hit the rock and it reverberated like a bass drum, it isn't really a rock at all.  It is a fake rock.  He the plaseter coating on the fabric mesh undershape is actually flaking off.  But, when I griped to Todd about it being silly, he informed me that the rock covers up a well head that couldn't be moved and sticks out of the ground.  The choice was to cover it with a hollow fake rock that can simply be lifted to reveal the well head, or put an unsightly barrier or box around it.  So now I hate it, but admire Todd's creativity to deal with that pesky problem...    That is my ONLY criticism of the course.

[THuckaby2]

OK, up against two of the big boys here.

Rich, again, I'm envisioning this NOT being an easy carry by any means (move it a little closer to green - there is room), and being one bitch of a bunker.  To me, the specimen oak there is OUT OF CHARACTER with the rest of the course... are there any others there like it?  Putting another gnarly bunker there might add "sameness" to you, to me it keeps the hole in character with the others.  In any case, hell, it's a great hole as it is so this is just fun nit-picking and if Todd reads this he's likely to shake his head and laugh at me again.  But put me on the Lynn Shackelford side here anyway!

BTW, from the tips carrying the tree on the 2nd might be a given for Todd and Josh, but it sure as hell wasn't for me.  I did so and made birdie the first day, but had to go left the 2nd day.  The tree is indeed perfectly placed for the tips, for mortals anyway...

But as long as we're tooting our own horns, I am:

Tom "birdie both days on #11" Huckaby  

[THuckaby2]

Just remember Pards - they planted quite a few trees.  The big one left of 14 green - planted.  All the small ones you see - planted.  I'd have to guess that tree on 1 was there to begin with - it is closer to the hill with vegetation on it - but still, keeping things " 100% natural" didn't seem to me to be the overriding goal at Barona, no matter what the signs say.

The course is what it is, true.  But that tree is definitely unique in the context of the rest of the course... is there ANY other tree that comes into play, besides this and the big ones left of 8 (part of the same "grove")?

Thus I continue to say put in a bunker.  Oh, what you say makes a lot of sense also - take what's there and run with it.  But if that's the standard throughout, a lot of what you saw last weekend wouldn't be there....

TH

[THuckaby2]

Ha!  Oh man shivas I am busting up at this one.  We NEED to play a few more rounds together so I can rid myself of this straight-hitting, good-playing rep.  

TH

[Dan Belden]

 I think the tree on #1 should stay.  Generally I prefer bunkers, but the tree offers a strategic element to the tee shot for the player going for the green in two.  If a player drives down the right side of the fairway he is left with an un impeded view, and can see the green.  A tee shot down the left side away from the bunkers offers an obstructed view. A bunker there can't provide the type of stimlus that the tree does.  Dan Belden

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Tom, I only wish the tree was a little taller so you would need to shape the ball around it to hit the green in two or challenge the right bunker off the tee to have an angle around it. That part of the course has a number of trees around it. remember behind 8 green and 2 tee etc. Both days I hit poor drives and had to make good shots because of the tree to have a good angle to the green at 100 to 115 out. If it had only been a trap then all I would have to do is advance the ball in a general direction, Therefore one could make two bad shots still be in the fairway at 100 to 120 out, hmmm making the hole very easy.

[THuckaby2]

JB - darn it, that is right on.  I guess I was only thinking in the context of the better drives... on a poor drive the tree does indeed punish one more than any trap would.  I suppose one could even "fix" that by making the trap penal enough and moving it toward the green more, but then it becomes another greenside trap and defeats the purpose.

So ok, I stand defeated here.  Leave the tree.  But I'd be curious as to Lynn's reasons... he started this!  

TH

[Craig Van Egmond]

I can't believe that no one mentioned the lack of beer at Barona as a problem.  I heard more whining about that than any trees or greens.    

I could care less about the beer myself, my only nit is the slow play, even when our groups were the firsts one off in the morning, it still took almost 5 hours.  I think because of the way the rough is you can still find your ball, so everybody looks, whereas other places you have no chance so you don't look.

You would think with fairways as wide as Barona missing them wouldn't be a big problem, but when you stand on the upper holes and look down, every hole had a group in the rough looking for balls.

Love the course though, possibly the best public course in the San Diego area.

[JakaB]

I like the tree...but if it is cut down please make some benches out of the damn thing...I am still pissed off that the course has the gaul to take the time to put a sign in the clubhouse declaring all its acolades...and then tells all walkers to take a hike.   I would like to see Golf Week start a third rating selection titled "100 Best Cart Ball" to give people who fly 2000 miles a little notice thats it not really golf they came to play anyway.   How much would a couple of benches cost...How much would a mowed path to the next tee cost...it just comes down to a flat lack of respect for the game.

[THuckaby2]

I can't believe that no one mentioned the lack of beer at Barona as a problem.  I heard more whining about that than any trees or greens.    

Correct.  That is a BIG problem.  Thankfully guys like Eric Shorz and Dan G had the foresight to smuggle some in, and we had the ever-gracious Pete G assist in this effort also.  But it drove Pete L to bring out his flask Sunday morning so yes, that does need fixing.  Fast.  

TH

[Dan Grossman]

I thought there was a whole thread on the lack of beer at Barona.  That is why Shortz and I came prepared.  Had we known that no one else was going to bring beer, we would have brought more.  

Shivas - sorry about the Bud Ice.  Had I thought there was going to be a bigger appetite for The Beverage on Sunday morning, I would have bought a case of Miller instead of a sixer.

Just to make some kind of architecture reference in this post, I like the tree on #1.  I had to play around it on Saturday and it forced me to think about what I was doing and hit a good shot to leave me with an unimpeded shot to the green from the correct distance.  Isn't that the definition of strategic???!!!!

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Sorry guys you haven't convinced me.  I just have a thing about trees on fairways and football fields.  Just my feelings (which are shared by Bobby Jones).  They don't belong.  If it is a plus on #1, why don't we put one on the other holes and reduce the number of bunkers.  The only way you will convince me that the tree is a positive is if there is a keg under it!

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Lynn, you are bringing me around with that keg of beer talk. lol

[johnk]

On pace of play at Barona - some data from this week -

I played on Sat - 9am in 4:15.  I walked, with 3 others in carts
Played the front nine on Monday, 7am - 1:50mins - walking
Played 18 on Tuesday, 7am - 4 hours exactly.  We looked for a lot of balls in that time - one person literally hit one in the weeds on every hole.

So I don't think the course has any intrinsic pace
of play problems.

One other note - I asked the starter and pro shop if people remembered the GCA group from last week.  To my dismay, the blank stares and vague recollections weren't quite the reaction I was expecting  When I mentioned Todd, everyone definitely remembered that he was around.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Hmm It seems we did not spend enough $ or time in the pro shop. lol

[THuckaby2]

Given the "issue" here before, we were also VERY careful not to identify our group with golfclubatlas in any way.  All the reservations were under Eckenrode.

And the course CAN be played fast.  When I was there in February, my friend and I were first group off, twosome only, and we played 18 holes in 1 hr, 50 minutes.  That is not a misprint.  Funny how fast you can go when there's no one in front of you.  Yes, we rode.  

TH

[JakaB]

Huck,

Did you play winter rules...for one who has been titled "Americas Guest" you need to set a better example for your following.   Even when noone is looking you as the best America has to offer need to set a standard others can aspire too...everyday, every round, every shot.  I know its a huge responsiblity...but man you asked for it.

[THuckaby2]

JakaB - I did not ask for the moniker "America's Guest", it was given to me here (and elsewhere - long story).  But I did accept it, as it keeps me humble.  Damn I hope to get in a financial position to return the favors some day... and the fact that I'm not know is what helps the ole humility.

But as for the round in question, while we did play it down, many putts were conceded in the interest of getting on to the next hole.  The only witness was one of my best golf friends in the world, and I couldn't possibly impress him if I showed up with Jack Nicklaus as my caddie - he's seen WAY too much of me to care one iota what I do.  We were also so far in front of the rest of play that we did indeed "have the course to ourselves."

I will, however, strive to set a good example in the future.  Heavy weighs the crown of responsibility being the AG.  

TH

ps - I still think Mike Cirba owns this title.  I am but his humble student.

[DMoriarty]

I agree with johnv and TH.  I dont think Barona has intrinsic pace of play problems. I played the course as a twosome early in the spring, on a very windy day, and finished 36 in just over 6 hours, on foot.  We weren't in a hurry.

I do agree with Craig, though.  It seems like you should be able to find your ball at Barona, so people do spend the time to look.  And for the most part, I think you can find and play your ball, hopefully without too much delay.  I like that about Barona.  
 
However, I was not fond of the patches of thick, tall, irrigated grass on the right side of 17 and 18, just left of the cart path.  These lush patches of grass seemed out of character with the rest of the course.  (I assume they exist to block the view of the cartpath going over small hills.)  Probably just sour grapes on my part, since I managed to hit into each patch, and had trouble getting out.