DeVries at Sunningdale (Scarsdale, NY) - hole 6 ("Alps") Reintroducing quirk (p

[Michael J. Moss]

Our 6th hole was originally a 390 yard Raynor "Alps" hole. In this version, the golfer driives the ball to a roller coaster fairway, which gradually rises and then drops down into a hollow, blind to the player, where the green was located. Unfortunately, the green was abandoned 7 years after it was opened, pulled out of the hollow and placed back into view. I can only surmise our members didn't embrace Macdonald's "the greatest holes of the British Isles." A new tee was added to lengthen the hole where it played 370 yards from the back tee. Mike D. kept the back tee, added three more sets and pushed the green back down into the hollow.

The difference between Mike's new version and Raynor's old one:

1.) It now plays 465 from the back tee. The downhill nature of the 2nd shot makes it play shorter, though.
2.) We brought in truck loads of fill to build up the platform and make the green more visible from some of the fairway ridges.
3.) Joe Hancock built what has come to be known as “Hancock Ridge,” a large land form that protrudes into the 6th fairway on the left from the area between the 6th and 7th hole. It serves two purposes: it enables the player to walk up and see where the pin is located that day. It can also be used to turbo-boost a drive that hits its back side and kick it towards the middle of the fairway. It truly is a very cool engineered feature that passes the “hand of G_d” test. Since there is a lot of stuff happening topography wise in that area, it looks like it has been there forever. I have to give kudos to Mike and Joe for coming up with the idea and then executing it so well. We now have a "somewhat" blind hole and our membership likes it, they actually like it! (Life cereal?)

"Before" image of green complex. New green required clearing trees in background. Notice more "containment mounding" in rear of green. Not missed!



Image of area, adjacent to the par-5, 7th tee,where the new green would be built.



Image of the same from the 7th tee.



New 6th: view from back. Hancock Ridge in view left side of fairway.



View of right side of fairway from members' tee. Flagstick can be seen.



Facing back towards teeing area. Hancock Ridge on right.



Now with green mostly in view. Bunkers added to afford golfer perspective. Ball will feed in from left.



Small shelf in front of bunker was used in the finals of our Club Championship. Devilish!



View of 6th green from 7th tee. Play is from right. Right side does drop down.



Final image: view from back tee on 7th hole. 6th green on left.

















   

[Adam Clayman]

 

Sadly, no responses. Perhaps the day after a major isn't the best time to post a thread on gca about gca. 

I'm so glad to hear the membership likes it.

On the other thread about the recent work someone told you to ignore any negative comments about the 11th.
Interesting how one can pick and choose who and when to listen to. Each case and person should be listened to, with real attention given to their justification. You never know where the next C Guide will come from? p.s. Especially when the player has a wedge in their hands, and there is a safe route, complaints about severity are practically laughable..

Good on ya mate.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

When I played Sunningdale recently, the area in front of this green was very wet due to heavy rains.My 7wood approach almost plugged.  When firm and fast,  this green can accept low running shots.

I really liked the work done on this hole.

[Justin Broderson]

Looks awesome, I remember talking to you about Mike doing work there when we played at Kingsley and was very curious how the current membership would view it.  Glad to see their coming around.

[Mike_DeVries]

Mike,

Thanks for posting the photos.  Any questions?

Mike

[Adam Clayman]

Mike, I'm curious. If those bunkers were added for perspective, was the tree in the rear, left there for that same reason?

And in general

 Do you have an ongoing relationship with this club?
Or,
Are you being treated like a contractor?

If you were just hired to do this job, would it be appropriate for you to respond to the following?

Do you think you could opine on any other possible changes at Sunningdale?

[Mike_DeVries]

Mike, I'm curious. If those bunkers were added for perspective, was the tree in the rear, left there for that same reason?

And in general

 Do you have an ongoing relationship with this club?
Or,
Are you being treated like a contractor?

If you were just hired to do this job, would it be appropriate for you to respond to the following?

Do you think you could opine on any other possible changes at Sunningdale?

   

Adam,

First, about the 6th hole – the bunkers provide perspective as do any trees in the background.  The bunkers also provide separation between the green and 7th tees – you would have to fly it to the tees for them to be an issue and there is plenty of separation.  A low-running approach into the left bank will follow the slope and the ball will come onto the green very effectively.  If there are players ahead of you and you are blind to the green on #6, you will know when it is clear to hit as you will see the players in front on the tees for #7. 

Many trees, brush, and vines were gleaned from the woodland behind the green – the club has more land back there but it is narrowing and we retained the unblemished forest for buffer and ecological reasons.  There is very good air movement and sunlight now for the golf holes.

I have been working with the club for about 5 years now.  I did a long range plan for the golf course.   We are implementing portions of that as the club desires and has the funds and support to do so.  Some of the issues are not just golf course, but infrastructure, such as parking and accommodating tennis and pool uses.  The pool and pool house were just redone after 75 years of use.

The range gets a lot of use from the membership and needs more space – the solution I came up with would move the range to a central location on the property and shift parking and tennis uses also.  This would improve the parking immensely and the practice and golf course greatly, while reducing the tennis courts in a central location from 12 courts to 9 or 10 – that is not an easy sell, but I think it is the best overall solution for the club.  In addition, there is an opportunity to shift the entrance to the club to provide for no crossing of golf holes from the road to the clubhouse.

The change in the range would affect the final 3 holes: 16 would go from a par 4 with a poor green to a dramatic par 5; 17 would be a par 3 but in a new location, eliminating the current configuration, which is very well-liked but with a flat green; and 18 would go from the short dogleg par 5 it is now to a wonderful medium par 4 finisher adjacent to #1.

The other holes on the golf course will have the bunkers and greens re-established to the traditional style that we have been implementing.  Some of the greens are very good and just need to have outer pin locations reclaimed, others need to be re-built due to changes over time to flat circles with retaining mounding around them.

Hope that helps out!
Mike

[Michael J. Moss]

Sorry guys. Somehow forgot this one. Again, view from area near 7th tee looking back down 6th fairway. The image does capture the way the land drops down to the green, but it doesn't describe the topography fully. In this case, the approach area leading up to the green is quite rumpled - hard to see - but this was Mike's attempt to mimic the land adjacent to it leading to the 7th fairway. This is the sort of detail work often lost on the membership but worth pointing out here on GCA. Hopefully we'll get a few eyeballs from Sunningdale perusing this thread. The flow of the hole is fantastic. The topography, here I go again, is truly unique looking. I am very proud of the result.