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Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not this is getting serious
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2009, 06:30:36 PM »
Jeff,

Fear not.  Nothing you wrote bothered me in the least.  My only point was that you need not entertain nonsense.

BTW, your suggestion about future government involvement in determining the fate of privately owned golf courses is probably understated.  It wasn't all that long that Deepdale had to fight off the local mayor's forced sale via eminent domain.  Private property rights are being severely undermined every minute of every day.  And as the recent GM and Chrysler bankruptcies demonstrated, our once proud claim that we are a country of laws and not of men is clearly in jeopardy.  

    

Rich Goodale

Re: Not this is getting serious
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2009, 02:07:08 AM »
Here's the viewpoint of another Scotsman (Hugo Rifkind), from the (London) Times




"Until this morning, I’d imagine, my views on the President of Venezuela were probably much the same as yours. Portly despot, talks too much, dodgy friends, redeemed by a thoroughly excellent first name, right? Suddenly, though, I am looking at him with a new affection. For Hugo Chávez has declared war. On golf.

It started last week, on the President’s live Sunday TV show. (All Hugos should have their own live Sunday TV show.) “Let’s make this clear,” he said. “Golf is a bourgeois sport.” Seven top golf courses in Venezuela have been closed since 2006. Now Mr Chávez wishes to force the closure of another two. Instinctively, I approve. Mark Twain called golf “a good walk spoiled”. Too kind, in my view. Golf is a disease. It swoops upon areas of outstanding natural beauty and turns them into the set of The Teletubbies, patrolled by humourless braying clowns.

As I am a Scot, people often assume I must approve of golf. Or worse still, play it. I don’t. I never have. Nobody hates golf like the non-golfing Scot. It’s not just the clothes. It’s the self-satisfaction, the clubbiness. There has always been a closed, complacent smugness about Scotland’s middle class, and golf has exported it to the world. Whenever I see a rapper play golf, something inside me dies. Golf is the final assimilation. To play is to give up on changing the world.

And yet I have friends who play golf, and family. When I shout and scold, they just laugh. Sometimes, I sense they want to pat me on the head. Because only non-golfers see golf as a political act. Those who play, just play. Several years ago this newspaper sent me to St Andrews to cover a fight about a bunker that had got slightly bigger. God, I was cross. Ridiculous people, I thought, with their stupid socks and back-slapping exclusivity. But then I got there, and it was all rather pleasant. There was a crowd gathered around the hole, like slightly adorable bird-watchers. They didn’t seem like agents of complacency and division. They didn’t even seem particularly middle-class. And I was shaken.

Still, never let actual humans get in the way of a good theoretical prejudice, that’s my motto. So I maintain my anti-golf position, and I salute President Chávez for his. I just hope he’s doing it for the right reasons. A man of his age gets urges, after all. He starts wanting a nice walk, but an easy one. A bit of sport, without breaking sweat. Maybe even a nice pink sweater. When a Hugo rails against golf, it’s not impossible that there could be a degree of self-loathing involved. Or so I’ve heard."



Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not this is getting serious
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2009, 07:20:44 AM »
Rich -  PRICELESS!

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not this is getting serious
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2009, 07:25:12 AM »
How many course in America are being closed and converted to housing projects? (or where until the economy slowed)

Yeah, I thought so.....capitalism good....whatever Chaxez is doing bad.
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not this is getting serious
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2009, 10:33:56 AM »
Craig,

Capitalism is good.

But, the majority want to tell capitalists how much their time is worth. How much their risk is worth. How much their land and buildings and people are worth. And the list goes on. And it's all because the risk taking capitalist has more than the majority. How unacceptable.

We have elected an administration that wants everyone to be content with middle of the road. Suddenly, mediocre is in. And we're falling for it.

I don't know Mr. Chavez well enough to pass judgment on him. Should we hold him to the same standards as we do the American capitalist? How is his lifestyle? Is it opulent enough for you to lump him in with the evil capitalist?

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not this is getting serious
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2009, 12:52:40 PM »
Joe...I totally disagree with your point regarding Obama seeking "mediocrity"  For the last thirty years we have been a "me" society, embracing "greed is good", and government (taxes) is bad...We did quite well in this country when we had higher tax rates, a strong and caring government, a sense of community, and an expanding MIDDLE class....and there was NOTHING mediocre about the USA back then.

But lets save that discussion for beers after a round of golf... :D

I don't know Chavez any better than you do...the article said there's a shortage of housing in Venezuela and that doesn't surprise me...is closing some golf courses to build more houses the answer? Beats me....I don't live in Venezuela.  I live here...in America...and I know that our economic system  determines the amount, the cost,the location,the market (who will live there) of housing....sometimes our system makes no sense, and other times it works pretty darn good to meet housing needs...Chavez says...golf is bourgeois and the courses have to go for housing...is it any different...is it any worse...for a developer to say sorry, the golf course has to go it no longer works with my financial situation...we need to build some housing?
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not this is getting serious
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2009, 12:57:05 PM »
Craig,

Your golf and beer idea is a sound one....... ;D

In the grand scheme of things, houses are more necessary than golf......I can't believe I just said that!

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

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