The Prairie Dunes course profile is posted

[Matt_Cohn]

[George Pazin]

Now that I have found the time to fully devour the PD writeup, I have a few questions:

1) How much of the links feel is due to the dunes & land movement versus the lack of trees? Would a course in another area that is more traditionally thought of as parkland terrain have a more links feel &, more importantly, links playability if there were no trees & attempts were made to follow the same principles as PD?

2) How would PD compare to Oakmont in this same vein? I know Oakmont has undergone a much publicized deforestation:), but does the course itself (Oakmont, that is) exhibit playing characteristics links-like in nature, like Prairie Dunes?

3) There were several mentions of remodeling work done by long time super Doug Peterson. Is there anything that can be learned here to put in the category of remodeling how-to's? Why did his work succeed when others have seemingly failed (at other courses, I mean)?

4) Have you ever looked forward so much to the next Women's US Open? Other than the one at Pine Needles, in the backyard of our esteemed host.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

George
I think it is combination of the sand hills, the native growth and the movement of the ground that makes PD. Its really not totally barren, like say a Sand Hills, I don't recall a place on the course where trees were not evident, but some of the wild contours in the fairway are what I think gives the course a links feel.

I haven't played Oakmont since they removed the trees so its difficult to say, but I'm not sure I'd call a Oakmont linkslike. Its in its own catagory -- old fashion, brutally hard, stark and an evil dark-like quality. But on the other hand there are a number different styles of links so the comparison may be a good one. I love the course and love is not word normally associated with Oakmont.

I've never looked foward to Women's Open as much, even though they've been to some pretty interesting places in the past like Pine Needles and Indianwood. Come to think of it the Womens Open has the potential to visit a number of very interesting new venues.

[George Pazin]

Thanks, Tom.

Are there similarities between the 4th greensite & the 8th? The first time I looked at the photo of the 4th, I thought it was the 8th.

Along with no. 2, there seem to be several greensites that are almost cut into hillsides.

I wonder how much natural ground movement in parkland courses is lost through construction, wiped out by a desire for long flowing lines.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

George
There are some similarities the way all those greens are cut into the sand hill, but part of the confusion may be due to that recent book from GOLF on the world's greatest courses, it has a photo of the 4th green labeled the 8th. There are similarities but they are all distinct from one another.

I do think that movement is wiped out in some parkland courses, especially with modern grading practices. However the movement at some of the holes at Prarie Dunes is in another class -- 8 and 9 standout in my mind.  Literally like the stormy sea.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Brad,

Question back at you on the back nine: if they took a chain saw to the trees, would you feel as strongly?

For me it's the tree holes -- 12, 14 & 15 -- that feel "weird," though maybe not as weird as seeing that adobe house off 16 fairway.

I really like how 3,4 & 5 use that same big dune occupied by several other front-nine holes...

Mark Bourgeois

If I may register a dissenting voice . . .

played PD a year ago, spent two days with superintendent Stan George, who is is about the most knowledgable, devoted ecologist one could ever hope to find.

On the design, it is spectacular, amazingly demanding, fascinating. But . . .

I thought the Press Maxwell holes (3,4, 5, 11-16) a little out of kilter. esp. the two uphill par-3s (4, 15) and the tree-lined !!!), kick-it through the uprights par-4 12th hole.

Still think it's a great course, but a little bit stuck out and I'm wondering what others think.