[mark chalfant]

Which are the most interesting holes at these Indiana courses ?  Are there some solid par fives or notable short par fours. If given two days in South Bend, would you choose to play 36 holes at one of these layouts, or play 18 holes  at each?

Thanks  

[Andy Troeger]

Depends on what you're looking for. I worked at Warren for a couple years and played out of Blackthorn for the last few years that I lived in South Bend. The teams I coached played out of both places at different times, although mainly Blackthorn.

If you really care about architecture Warren is the better bet. The land was definitely less interesting to begin with but Coore/Crenshaw did a nice job creating an interesting course that looks and feels very old. I also think its the harder course of the two, it tests your game very thoroughly especially on the back nine.

Holes of note at Warren include #4 which is a short par three with a crazy green. #5 is a reachable par five with a central bunker in front of the green. #10 is a wonderful short par five over a creek. #15-18 are all really good, with the creek re-appearing for the final three holes. The 16th is 345 yards and has the second craziest green on the course (behind #4 IMO). Good course and you definitely want to play it at least once.

Blackthorn is totally different. Personally, I have more fun there because it fits my game and gives you more room to play than Warren. There are a few holes that I don't care for, but the finishing stretch is very solid. Its a much tougher walk, but it certainly can be done and has more to do with the terrain than long walks (although there are a couple, 9-10 and 18-clubhouse).

Holes of note at Blackthorn include #2, a drivable par four (especially from the green tee) over some bunkers that's very well done. #3 has a huge tiered green on a medium length par three. #9 is a nice hole with an uphill tee shot and a downhill second--pretty hole.

After a couple blah holes to start the back nine I think the stretch from #12 to the clubhouse is pretty darn good. #14 is probably the strongest par four on the back (argument to #17). #15 is a reachable par five, #16 a short par three over a nasty chasm, and #18 is a fantastic par five that tumbles down the hill with water left of the green for those wanting to gamble.

Sadly, Blackthorn has removed some bunkers that have taken away some strategic interest on that ending stretch. The fairway bunker on #18 is rather odd-looking now as its halfway up the hillside and rather out of play.

I'd play each course once, but if you're a big fan of traditional courses or C & C you might be better off staying at Warren both days.  On the public side, those are the best two in South Bend.

[Jon Wiggett]

Which are the most interesting holes at these Indiana courses. Are there some solid par fives or  notable short par fours. If given two days in South Bend, would you choose  to play 36 holes at one on these layouts or play 18 at each.

thanks   

Mark,

why not 36 at both?

[PCCraig]

Two weeks ago Saturday I drove down to South Bend with a buddy to play the Warren Course, we had so much fun the first go-around we decided to play again. The first round took 3 hours, and the second took 3.5 on a (somewhat) busy Saturday...not too bad.

The course essentially is a tale of the two sides of the property, with each nine starting on the less interesting land, then the last three holes of each playing over the more hilly/interesting land. Mostly the course reminded me of a somewhat low-key Maxwell-esque layout, and while it doesn't jump right out at you, it is alot of fun.

Some holes of note/general observations;

#4 - Great classic-looking short par-3, a fun green with bunkers surrounding.
#5 - Neat horseshoe green around a little pot bunker on a short par-5.
#7 - A pretty cool "cape" tee shot with a center line bunker in the fairway to make things interesting (which apparently the club placed after C&C left town to make the hole harder).
#9 - Another mid-length par-3 along the entrance road, a neat green with some good bunkering.

#10 - I liked the hole in principal, but thought the second shot was too awkward IMO. It's easily reachable, and a decent drive leaves you with +/- 225 left in with a shot over a creek and a bailout area right. If you go for it and miss, or layup, the thrid shot becomes a little too diffucult for my taste.
#11 - a good long par-3.
#14 - completes a great set of low-key par-3's
#15 - great short par-4 with a small green.
#16 - also short par-4, with a small green with tons of contour, 2nd shot is way uphill.

[John Burzynski]

I like Warren better of the two from a golf architectural importance standpoint, it is the more traditional and 'architecturally significant' of the courses.   As a fisherman I still am not a fan of what they eventually did to the creek running through there, but then againt he nearby mall and its runoff also screwed up a nice trout fishery there.

Blackthorn suits my game better, too, especially on errant drives, Warren isn't too forgiving in that regard.  I do find Blackthorn to be the more scenic of the two, architecture notwithstanding, and probably from a walking standpoint the more difficult of the two to walk due to its comparably hilliness.

Try at least 18 at both courses, they are both worthwhile.  You really won't be disappointed anywhere around here with the golf, especially for the price, the munis are all in fine shape and especially good bargains.

[Ken Fry]

As a fisherman I still am not a fan of what they eventually did to the creek running through there, but then againt he nearby mall and its runoff also screwed up a nice trout fishery there.

John,

The creek was essentially "dead" when construction on the golf course began.  No steelhead spawning due to the water temperature being too high and water flow too stagnant.  The stream reconstruction improved both and brought steelhead up stream for the first time in many years.  ND Biology Department can attest and continues to monitor.

Mark,

Warren is the better course and more enjoyable.

Ken

[Doug Spets]

Just played the Warren Course this past weekend and came away very impressed.  I was somewhat surprised how similar it was to the 1st Coore-Crenshaw course I played just a few months ago...Chechessee Creek in Beaufort.  Many of the same type of elevated greens on what seemed like a fairly uninteresting plot of land.  Have to agree that the 4th green is among the strangest I have seen.  The pin was back right...impossible to get to off the tee...and any putt any other part of the green was about like putting thru the clown's mouth.  #17, a relatively short, uphill par 5 seemed to me to be a little out of place with the rest of the course.  Really liked the course, though...wish I could have gotten to Blackthorn.

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