[Craig Van Egmond]

The tee reservation system.  Here I am in Irvine thinking I was going to try my luck at the latest and hottest course in Southern Cal,  but to my dissappointment, they only take reservations for foursomes.

I play most of my golf as a single, joining up with others, most So-Cal courses (not just Rustic) will not let you call in advance to fill up a twosome or threesome, instead invite you to come on out to take your chances. Courses in Washington and Oregon are much more accommadating about pairing up singles with others.

The policy of only allowing foursomes is especially troublesome  because it doesn't leave much chance of getting on as a single. I don't know if I would make an hour and half drive for only a chance to get on.  

How will out of towners who don't know anyone get on this course?

[guest]

Craig just use the GCA, " book a tee time, get a game reservation system" hear that fella from NC will be adding it to left column after the purchase additional servers

[RJ_Daley]

Wow Craig, that sounds like some poor business practice for a newly opened public course to me.  You'd think that they would take the opportunity to fill up the tee sheet whenever they can, given that they are only going to be charging a modest amount for green fees (by their So Cal standards).  If you told me that you explained to them that you were there as a matter of support and respect with and for Geoff only days before the official opening and that you didn't have a chance to play then, and they still told you no, I would call them long distance just to tell whoever is running that show to piss off.  A private club is of course a differnt thing.  But, for someone who is supposed to be in business to make a profit and create good will for a new venture to tell someone like you who had come a long way to play and getting that sort of brush-off is inexcusable and in the end will catch up with them, I feel confident to say.  It isn't like they have lines like Bethpage Black yet.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Shame on both of you...

Here is a golf course that really is opened at this time as a privlidge; one whose facility isn't even close to being complete--from the clubhouse, driving range and even the road that takes you into the facility; A place where you both were given a SPECIAL PRIVATE tour by its designer who took time out of his busy day and drove from Santa Monica to Moorpark just to show you both around....and you find fault with a reservation system of a course that just today celebrated two weeks of being in business???

I GET this post in all of its entirety.

BTW, I have to tell you that today, on last minutes notice I was not only granted access for first thing tomorrow morning, by a staff member that was not only humble and delgihtful to deal with, but a welcome relief from the usual process one deals with while being placed through phone hell at one of the "dying for business" local CCFAD's.

Do me a favor, both of you stay at Lost Canyons!:(

[Scott_Burroughs]

Cog Hill Dubsdread has the same ridiculous system.  Foursomes only.  I hope Rustic changes that for when I get a chance to play it.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tommy,

        The person I spoke with in the pro shop was very pleasant, it is only the policy of only taking tee times for foursomes that I was bothered with, but as I pointed out it really seems to be a popular policy around here and not just a Rustic Canyon thing.

        I am extremely grateful for the guided tour, my post was more about playing as a single but I was also playing off the much popular favorite thing at Rustic Canyon.

        I am glad you were able to get on, however you are not the average Joe blow coming into town to try and play, you are the emperor, with connections and friends of the designers.

        Obviously Rustic Canyon is getting all the business it needs or wants at the moment.  

[John_Conley]

Someone calls this a "ridiculous" system.  If I were an owner/opetator, I'd want to maximize revenue.  Assuming the tee sheet will fill up, there is a disincentive on their part to book any twosomes and rely on their ability to match.

Want to play?  Go to the course as a single and tell them you'll join up with anyone that has a no-show.  You will get to play and will be doing everyone a favor.

It'd be different if they were worried about filling an empty tee sheet, but somehow I think Cog Hill #4 and a new, acclaimed course in California don't have that problem.

[THuckaby2]

Interesting.  It's always just been an assumption of mine that courses don't allow a single to reserve a time - it's always been that way - but I do live here in CA!  I honestly didn't know that such was allowed ANYWHERE.  Shame on me.

You can see the disincentive of the courses to allow such, given that allows for at least a chance that 1-3 potential revenue-producing slots go unused.  But it also does indeed make it very hard on the travelling single golfer.

I have no answers here, only statements of the obvious!

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

So, I'm going to go out there and take an entire day from my life and hope that someone doesn't show?  If there's no no-shows, I've wasted an entire day.  How's that for fair?  And it certainly isn't a truly public course.  It's basically a private club for people who know 3 people who can play at the same time as them.  The f*ck with you, out-of-towners.

At Cog Hill, each 4-some prepays the entire amount, nonrefundable, I believe.  If someone no-shows, and a single replaces that person, I have sneaking suspicion that they're going to charge me a greens fee, thus collecting 5 greens fees.  That doesn't sound right, but please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Rustic originally was open for mornings tee times only.  If they still fill tee sheets once they're open full time, then so be it.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Huckster,

No one said anything about singles reserving tee-times.  That is basically the rule most everywhere.  What they're saying is that twosomes and threesomes can't book tee times, either.  Only foursomes.  Normally, singles get paired with twosomes or threesomes, but not here.  It's a private club for public foursomes.  Singles not allowed.  Come out and waste an entire day waiting for someone not to show up.

[THuckaby2]

Scott - AHA!  Thanks for the clarification.  OK, I can certainly understand not allowing reservations for singles, and perhaps maybe I can see the rationale for two players... but not allowing three seems to be taking it too far.

In defense of Rustic though, from what their web site says, they are indeed only allowing play from 8 to noon each day for the time being.  So with those limited times the rationale for only foursomes becomes more understandable.

It royally screws up my plans for June 11 though - that was going to be just me and a friend.  Oh well... off to try and find two more players....

TH

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tom,

      The courses in Washington will not allow a single to reserve a whole tee time, but what they do is find openings on the tee sheet where only a twosome or threesome is scheduled and put you down with them.  I can't think of any course in Washington that requires you to make a tee time for a foursome and I have played most of the popular ones. I often drive 2 or 3 hours to play courses around the state and I am reluctant to just try my luck.

       It is a great policy from a golf course perspective though, especially if you get the money up front and the tee sheets are always full.

[Don_Mahaffey]

The folks at RC are showing incredibly restraint in only taking tee times for 4 hours. If they were greedy they would be open from dawn to dusk and soon the course would look like every other $30 muni in So Cal. For them to have an extended soft opening shows me that they may actually know what a jewel they have and are doing the things they need to protect the course. As someone who manages a golf course I can tell you that there is always someone who offers negative input on every decision I make. I have learned to try and do what is best for the property I manage and live with the criticism. Once you all get the opportunity to play this wonderful course you may get a greater appreciation for what has been accomplished there. Cut management some slack as they are simply trying to manage the course during a very critical time in its life. By taking foursomes they are able to reliably predict play and schedule staff while they are still learning how to manage the place. Find three friends. You might even find them here.

[THuckaby2]

Sage counsel, words of wisdom Don.  Thanks!

TH

[RJ_Daley]

First off, I don't need to be shamed or feel shamed to say what I have said above.  I understand and agree with soft openings as a matter of common sense.  But, I also understand that Craig was not put off by a phone system.  He talked to a real live manager who if he had one ounce of brains would understand that he was not talking to some indifferent intrepid hack that wandered in off the freeway.  It isn't a pleasant drive through that hell hole you live in to go from Irvine to Moorpark.  How tough would it be to check the sheet and TELL Craig or a caller IF there were any possible twos or threes.  Oh, I get it, you can't get on the sheet unless you are 4.  Well, if you are on a soft opening and only taking 4SOMEs in the morning, you might consider the story, assuming Craig explained his predicament of being there as a single, and how he has been respectful and supportive to the effort from the git-go and tell him you will fit him in at 12:05 after the last 4some of the soft opening morning.  

This was a bit too personal for me Tommy.  I don't need chewing out about my feelings on this.  I don't exactly have a leer jet at my convenience.  When and if I go 2500+ miles to be both supportive and collegial and show proper appreciation and respect yet would get told no in these particular circumstances Craig describes where the course is now officially open, I can guarantee I wouldn't be back.  Unike some folks that covet and use their ratings service cards as a freebee, I have none, seek none, and my money is always out on the table offering to pay my way.  I have been comp'd a few times by some very nice people who wouldn't let me pay anything but I can assure you I have found a way to pay them back in kind whether is is a nice meal or whatever seems appropriate.  I don't need to be characterized as a mooch or unappreciative.  I don't think I left any question with Geoff of my appreciation of him coming out to meet us and guide us and let us 'at least walk around' oneweek before opening and see the grown-in course.  I'll let him tell me if I wasn't suitably appreciative, not you!  

As far as staying at Lost Canyons next time, don't worry, there won't be a next time.  There are 20000+ courses between here and there and believe it or not, some of them are pretty damn good, and very hospitable to customers AND SUPPORTERS.

Over and out!

[Joe Hancock]

I'm kinda glad my course only caters to the common folk! Not really, I'd love to have any of you dignitary's visit. But, on the subject of tee times....we allow 2,3,and 4 somes the right to make tee times, allowing our staff to make pairings on the tee sheet AND our starters to do the same out on the tee. We always explain to 2 and 3 somes that they may be paired but if its not real crowded we'll try to leave them alone. They almost always understand, with the occasional grumblers thrown in for fun.

But we're just a decent "muni-type" course in Michigan,

Joe

[bob (Guest)]

We will see how long the management at RC will be able to hold out. If they do hold out for a few months until the course matures a little more, it will make it an even more joy for those to come.

[Tim Weiman]

Craig Edgmand/Dick Daley:

During my six years of living in Southern California I never saw any discrimination against golfers playing as a single.  In fact, I always preferred to fly solo because it made getting on crowded munis easier.  A good example is Rec Park in Long Beach.  They never gave singles tee times, but always made things work.

My experience living in Sacramento was pretty much the same.  I often played Ancil Hoffman, a busy muni that used to rank on Golf Digest's Best Public courses list.  The policy there was exactly like Rec Park.

Come to think of it, the same policy is followed at my local muni here in Cleveland.  Big Met is supposedly the busiest course in Ohio.  They don't take reservations for singles, but the starters always find some way of working you in.

All things considered, I like my chances as a single just about anywhere in the world.  Southern California doesn't stand out as anything different.

As for Rustic Canyon, my biggest surprise is the green fee.  It sounds more like Cleveland than LaLa Land.

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