Hooks Of Pinehurst

[Sean_A]

I often go over courses in my mind in the hope I will find something about them which makes them strand out, but which folks don't really talk about.  Near as I can recall, #2 has several holes which seem to turn hard just at or before the green.  The second is an inclining of this in how is slips right round the bunker.  However, the 3rd is what I had more in mind.  The turn is accentuated because the green angles left to right against the grain, as it were, of the little hook right short of the green.  #6 has a curious slide left near the end, but this is likely just the angling of the green.  #s 10, 11 & 12 all have a pronounced turn some 50 to 20 yards short of the green - so does 18. 

Have folks noticed these turns at #2 and have you seen it so much used at other courses? 

Ciao

[Steve Wilson]

The fifth at No. 2 is an example of this too if I recall correctly.  And on that green the right to left orientation is accentuated by the spine that runs along the same axis and will steer a ball to perdition on the left. 

The tenth also tucks away from the main thrust of the hole.  That's why just being on the fairway isn't quite good enough at No. 2.

It's been a long time since I played it, but off the top of my head the only holes I can recall that lack this feature are 1, 4, 13 (but it's decidedly uphill), and 18.  I hadn't thought about the par 3s, but 6 definitely has that slightly askew feature.  I remember playing there in a tournament in the early 90s.  There was a field of 120 and nobody put their name on the card for a proximity prize.  We were playing from the back tees but still you would have thought someone could have got a ball on the green. 

Interesting observation and intriguingly characterized as 'hooks'.   

[Mac Plumart]

Sean...I have yet to play Pinehurst #2, but will be teeing it up in early May.

However, I have played Druid Hills in Atlanta.  Their 15th holes appears to hook left right at the green.  Here is a picture.






Was this more prevelant in the golden age?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Sean,
Are they truly hooked, or are they mostly just angled greens, trapped short on one side and deeper on the other, with fairway mowing that fools the eyes into thinking a curved shot is required ? 

[Tom MacWood]

Sean...I have yet to play Pinehurst #2, but will be teeing it up in early May.

However, I have played Druid Hills in Atlanta.  Their 15th holes appears to hook left right at the green.  Here is a picture.






Was this more prevelant in the golden age?

Mac
Your picture brings back good and bad memories. Good memories of Druid Hills and bad memories of the 15th, one of the worst holes I've run across. Your picture does not do justice to the severity of the incline. Actually that is a modern hole - I believe it was Robert Cupp who added it a few years ago.

[Mac Plumart]

Tom...interesting...please go on...assuming this is ok with Sean as it is his thread...

I am always interested in learning about golf courses.  I get the chance to play this one a lot, as a friend of mine is a member.  I've studied the course a good bit and it is my understanding that it was built in the 20s (?), then Tillinghast re-did the bunkers/greens on 8 and 12 (I think those are the holes), and the Cupp re-did the course in 2003 (once again I am fuzzy on the exact date).

But they say Cupp restored the courses to is "Golden Era" design.  What does that mean?  Did he completely re-do the course or simply spruce up the original design?  These types of things always confuse me as I am not sure who deserves the credit regarding whose course it is.  Does that make sense?

[BCrosby]

Mac -

As Tom MacW notes, the 15th is a Cupp redo of a low-lying, short par 4 that had severe flooding problems. The new hole was completed two or three years ago. It's awful. Very steep upslope to a blind, shallow green, fw contours that concnetrate divots in a very small area. And if that isn't enough, the amount of dirt moved (which was considerable) seemed to trigger drainage problems on the next holes (which run behind and below the green shown in the pic.)

Sorry Sean, don't mean to thread jack.

Bob

[Anthony Gray]

  I think 13 is the only true dog legg.

  Anthony

[Sean_A]

Sean,
Are they truly hooked, or are they mostly just angled greens, trapped short on one side and deeper on the other, with fairway mowing that fools the eyes into thinking a curved shot is required ? 

JIm

There is no question that the shaping of the fairways are a "trick of the eye".  Most of the holes mentioned bend short of the green, but I don't think it really changes the holes.  The greens are fairly small targets and the goal for guys like me is just to hit them.  However, I wonder if it did make a difference in the days before these greens became so abruptly pushed up and lost some of the edges which is much more typical of Ross greens?  There is something very odd about the abrupt turns short of greens combined with the abrupt rises to the greens.

Ciao

[Jaeger Kovich]

Anthony - 7 is a cape style dogleg and I would probably consider #16 a dogleg as well, although you really have to play from the back tees to feel it turn.

Sean - I just got back from Pinehurst and had a great first experience on #2. I really like the way you explain these "hooks". I found that with the crowned greens, it is the "hooks" that give you the line of play. On holes # 2 and 3, he hooks the holes around bunkers which force you left with ariel because of the carries. But on # 5 and 10, the hook allows you play along the ground.

Remember like it says on the 1st tee... He is trying to get you to solve "a variety of problems that will test every type of shot". So there should be a way use the slope of the greens / approaches to get your ball closer to the hole: Left side of green on # 2 and 3, run to the middle. Short right on #5 kicks you to the middle... 12, 13, 14, 16 and 18 do the same in their own way.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Sean,
I just have an impression of the hooks being just that, a device to try and 'hook' you into playing toward the wrong side.