[Jason Topp]

I played in an event yesterday on a course where this is the view from the tee on the closing hole:



392 yards - 272 downhill to get to a creek crossing the fairway at the bottom of the hill.    Ground slopes right to left off the tee.  OB left.  Chip out trees right.

The tree stands in the middle of the creek.  Right of the tree is ideal (because the green opens that direction)  but the opening is very narrow and one would need to fade it to get it to stay on the right side.  Over the tree is not an option because it is tall and you are hitting from a downhill lie.

In our group everyone laid up off the tee.  All three of us had to hit low approaches below the branches, but I had to curve it around the tree. 

It is probably a poor golf hole but there is some fun in being forced to hit an unusual shot from the middle of the fairway.  Everyone in our group made 4.  One member of our group made double on the hole one year to miss qualifying for the state am.  He did not associate that tree with "fun."

[Anthony Gray]

  BUT FUN.....................This says it all and for a finishing hole there is drama involved.

  Thanks for the thread Jason.

[David Stamm]

Ew....

[Ben Sims]

This diatribe will be prefaced by saying that I made these assumptions based only on your picture.  I would need to see the hole.

It seems that--from your picture--the green accept a draw better than a fade.  So naturally, position A on this hole would be center right.  If you are center right, or even on the far right side of the fairway, that's where the best angle to the green lies.  The picture makes it seem that if you play your shot in that particular area, the tree is close to being away from your line to the green, i.e., it only serves a purpose for those that hit down the center or center left of the fairway.  With that said, the green complex is already shaped and angled in such as way that the fade from the left isn't the preferred shot.  So in effect, the tree AND the green complex are against you.

Double whammy = no funny.  Poor golf hole with tree.  Decent golf hole without tree.

[Anthony Gray]

 The tree helps to defend the hole.

  Anthony

[Jason Topp]

This diatribe will be prefaced by saying that I made these assumptions based only on your picture.  I would need to see the hole.

It seems that--from your picture--the green accept a draw better than a fade.  So naturally, position A on this hole would be center right.  If you are center right, or even on the far right side of the fairway, that's where the best angle to the green lies.  The picture makes it seem that if you play your shot in that particular area, the tree is close to being away from your line to the green, i.e., it only serves a purpose for those that hit down the center or center left of the fairway.  With that said, the green complex is already shaped and angled in such as way that the fade from the left isn't the preferred shot.  So in effect, the tree AND the green complex are against you.

Double whammy = no funny.  Poor golf hole with tree.  Decent golf hole without tree.

Ben:

I have no problem with analysis by pictures.  No one is going to go out of their way to play this course.

I think your interpretation of the hole is generally correct - although the green is generous enough that from the left side one can easily hit the green.  Getting close is a much bigger challenge from the left side because of the slopes and angle of the green.

The other factor not obvious from the picture is how difficult it is to hit it in a good spot right of the tree.  Because of the right to left slope of the ground, I would guess one needs to hit a five yard area or controll a fade to counteract the slope.  I hit five tee shots in a practice round and one in the event and could never find a spot to the right of the tree - I hit it in the woods right or it bounded left.  For that reason - a player who successfully hits it to the right should be amply rewarded.

I disagree that it is a good hole without the tree.  It would be a layup down the middle and a short iron to a big green.  Such a hole would be mundane.

In its present state I don't necessarily think it is a good hole, but it is definitely not mundane. 

[Kalen Braley]

I'm seeing the goofy bit, but not the fun part.

Now if the fairway were wider, with no tree impingement left and right, it might make it into the fun category because then you would have plenty of room to "pick your side".

[Jason Topp]

I'm seeing the goofy bit, but not the fun part.

Now if the fairway were wider, with no tree impingement left and right, it might make it into the fun category because then you would have plenty of room to "pick your side".

Kalen

Without a doubt it would be a better hole if it were wider. 

Nonetheless, I found it memorable (and fun) to be forced to hit a low curving shot under and around the tree.     

[Anthony Gray]

 

  Deleeted

[Bill_McBride]

I'm seeing the goofy bit, but not the fun part.

Now if the fairway were wider, with no tree impingement left and right, it might make it into the fun category because then you would have plenty of room to "pick your side".

Kalen

Without a doubt it would be a better hole if it were wider. 

Nonetheless, I found it memorable (and fun) to be forced to hit a low curving shot under and around the tree.     

Jason, have you played Stanford yet?  #12 has TWO trees in the dead center of the fairway!

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Doesn't anyone have a problem with a hole where one lightening strike can change its entire tenor?

[John_Conley]

Hole would be better if that were a large pine.  It looks like you can always go under this one.

Which course, Jason?  I see in the pic it is Legacy, but where is that?  Not Legends in Prior Lake...I've played that one.  Sure looks like Joel Goldstrand at work, and I'm a big fan of his work.

[Jim Colton]

I'd have to see it in person, but from the picture that hole does not look like my idea of fun.  Interesting? Maybe.  Memorable?  Yes, but probably not in a good way.  Fun?  I don't think so. 

[Jason Topp]

Hole would be better if that were a large pine.  It looks like you can always go under this one.

Which course, Jason?  I see in the pic it is Legacy, but where is that?  Not Legends in Prior Lake...I've played that one.  Sure looks like Joel Goldstrand at work, and I'm a big fan of his work.

It is the Legacy in Faribault.  It looks like a Goldstand hole but is not.  I'm not sure who designed it.

I think the hole would be impossible with a pine.  Going under is difficult enough.

[John_Conley]

It is the Legacy in Faribault.  It looks like a Goldstand hole but is not.  I'm not sure who designed it.

I think the hole would be impossible with a pine.  Going under is difficult enough.

Jason, I haven't seen it.  Obviously the mention of a pine is in jest.  The course I love in the area is Owatonna.  Is Legacy the one that butts up to Shattuck-St. Mary's?  If so they have great student rates.

[PThomas]

even this tree lover is scared of that picture!

[Jason Topp]

It is the Legacy in Faribault.  It looks like a Goldstand hole but is not.  I'm not sure who designed it.

I think the hole would be impossible with a pine.  Going under is difficult enough.

Jason, I haven't seen it.  Obviously the mention of a pine is in jest.  The course I love in the area is Owatonna.  Is Legacy the one that butts up to Shattuck-St. Mary's?  If so they have great student rates.

That is the one

[John Moore II]

So how tall is that tree? Because I'm thinking that I would have to play a 3 iron off that tee to be fully certain that I wasn't in the creek or blocked out by the tree fully, which would likely leave me about a 9 iron into the green. With 9 iron or wedge in my hand, thats got to be a mighty tall tree to make me worry about it. And if its that tall, I'll hit 7 iron off the tee and bend a high 5 iron or something around the tree. That hole is not so hard it you get past the visual part of it.

[Jason Topp]

So how tall is that tree? Because I'm thinking that I would have to play a 3 iron off that tee to be fully certain that I wasn't in the creek or blocked out by the tree fully, which would likely leave me about a 9 iron into the green. With 9 iron or wedge in my hand, thats got to be a mighty tall tree to make me worry about it. And if its that tall, I'll hit 7 iron off the tee and bend a high 5 iron or something around the tree. That hole is not so hard it you get past the visual part of it.

John:

I'm not sure how tall it was but it was tall enough that no one I played with even thought about hitting over it.   The tree is 110 yards from the center of the green so you do not have much yardage to get the ball in the air unless you leave your tee shot well back.  I hit about a 225 yard shot off the tee which, because it was downhill, wound up at the 150 marker.  From that spot I would have needed a lob wedge to get it over because I was hitting from a downhill lie.

In retrospect, it may have made sense to be more agressive off the tee.  If I was closer to the water, the tree would not have been an issue.  Doing so would have made OB, the water and the trees right more of a risk.

[ChipOat]

Talk about a Stupid Tree!!  The unique fact that it sits in the middle of a creek does not justify its existence on any kind of golf hole.  It needs to go - period.

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