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Rick Sides

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2009, 06:46:26 PM »
I would be curious to see if Dustin Johnson could hit the 15th at Pine Valley.  It plays about 645 yards or so with fact its uphill

JESII

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2009, 06:53:12 PM »
#15 was hit 15+ years ago with a 4 iron...albeit from the tees 50 yards shorter than the current max, but it happened. Been hit several times since as well.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2009, 09:33:11 PM »
Rick,

A friend of mine, a young amateur, hit # 15 in two many years ago.

He was the second person to do so and the first amateur.

I believe that Gary Groh was the first to hit it in two.

Having played Pine Valley last friday, # 7 was probably at its most vulnerable as about two months of rain have the greens in a highly receptive mode.

I hit a good drive a decent 3-wood and a full sand wedge.
The thought of two 4-woods getting home is very impressive.
However, I'm in disbelief that it was done from the back tee, especially since the fairways were so damp.

I wonder if he tried to drive # 8 and # 12 ?

P.S.

I had the esteemed wind and yardage consultant, Rocco J Carbone Jr as my caddy and we had a blast.

He's really great to be with.
If I was playing in a match or match play tournament, I want him looping for me, he's got to be worth at least two holes, maybe three if your opponent has thin skin.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 09:36:00 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Bill_McBride

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2009, 09:39:56 PM »
Rick,

A friend of mine, a young amateur, hit # 15 in two many years ago.

He was the second person to do so and the first amateur.

I believe that Gary Groh was the first to hit it in two.

Having played Pine Valley last friday, # 7 was probably at its most vulnerable as about two months of rain have the greens in a highly receptive mode.

I hit a good drive a decent 3-wood and a full sand wedge.
The thought of two 4-woods getting home is very impressive.
However, I'm in disbelief that it was done from the back tee, especially since the fairways were so damp.

I wonder if he tried to drive # 8 and # 12 ?

P.S.

I had the esteemed wind and yardage consultant, Rocco J Carbone Jr as my caddy and we had a blast.

He's really great to be with.
If I was playing in a match or match play tournament, I want him looping for me, he's got to be worth at least two holes, maybe three if your opponent has thin skin.

Patrick, not to change the subject, but could you share an example or two of Mr. Carbone's needle?  ;D

Sean Leary

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2009, 12:22:58 AM »
I have not played it from the new back tee, but 15 seemed WAY more unreachable to me.

JESII

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2009, 10:19:55 AM »
I have not played it from the new back tee, but 15 seemed WAY more unreachable to me.

I think the nature of the driving zone landing area on #15 and the open front make it more accessible for the people able to get to either...people had been all around #7 but the nature of the green complex makes it near impossible to actually get on in 2.

archie_struthers

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2009, 11:25:37 AM »
 ;D :D ;) 8)

The reasons 15 has been reached many times while #7 up to now was impregnable are quite simple. The really super long hitters had to lay up on 7 , or drive it up into Hell's Half Acre and hope for a good lie  ,  NOT ! 

On #15 not only can some one hit it 350 with no impediments but the second shot can be run onto the green.....in firm and fst conditions the math works for a few guys . 
 
We've talked on site about the anomoly that is #7 , and to me it was unbelievable that no one had gotten lucky or caught the right day to hit the green in all these years.  Many of us who could never reach 15 have the lenght to reach seven. Before the new tees were built, good caddies were very careful to leave a three wood and or/ 1 iron back in the day, today many long hitters hit rescue from the daily tees , as HHH is in play for them.

 There are some real big oaks on #8 tee,  I occasionally saw a wayward third shot hit same and bounce towards seven gree, which is perpindicular to the tee.  Likewise the bunkers often get quite firm , which might allow a ball to bounce into the front bunker or off a sprinkler head and onto the green .  Believe me if you watch enough golf almost anything that can happen does.   I've seen tap in birdies on #7 from the halfway house , and even made a few from there lol  (now that's crooked)
 
The real truth why it took so long is in Crumps design, which has stood the test of time that prevented seven from being hit.   No one goes for the green in two , because it just doesn't make sense. The risk is far greater than the reward.   That's why I thought one of the assistants playing at after work might do it when chasing the last ras of light.  When I worked there, we oftern played 1-9 10 and 18  before heading home .  I really thought seven would be reached "unofficially " , but kudo's to the hitter.  As an aside, it probably will lead to more and more big numbers by  players trying to emulate the feat.   


JSlonis

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2009, 11:56:41 AM »
Archie,

Was it confirmed what tee was played?  I really can't imagine anyone reaching in two from the newer back tee.  Before the two newest back tees were built I could see someone getting there but not now.  In the Philly Open in 2002 I hit it in the left greenside bunker in two and the was the closest I ever came.  Come to think of it, it was probably the only time I ever tried. :) There is no chance in "hell's half acre" that I could ever reach now.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 12:00:54 PM by JSlonis »

archie_struthers

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2009, 12:10:06 PM »
 ;D :D 8) ???


Hey Jamie,  still waiting for the totally correct details. You would have to  assume that they were playing the "daily " tees , as reports are that the soon to be famous "hitman"  used four wood, four wood to accomplish the feat.  As stated , I'll enjoy sipping on a cold one on Jim Sullivan, who  extended our bet that it would happen last year . Now that's a gentlemanly wager.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 01:00:41 PM by archie_struthers »

JSlonis

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2009, 02:22:27 PM »
;D :D 8) ???


Hey Jamie,  still waiting for the totally correct details. You would have to  assume that they were playing the "daily " tees , as reports are that the soon to be famous "hitman"  used four wood, four wood to accomplish the feat.  As stated , I'll enjoy sipping on a cold one on Jim Sullivan, who  extended our bet that it would happen last year . Now that's a gentlemanly wager.
Thanks. Unless someone has some very magical four woods, they aren't getting home from the back tee in two...EVER.

Tom Huckaby

Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2009, 02:33:45 PM »
Jamie:
Of course I trust your take on this (and pretty much all involving this game) implicitly.

SO... having never seen PV in person... I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around why this hole should be seen as unreachable given the prodigious distances some people hit the ball these days.

If Kalen's google aerial is to be trusted, a great drive could leave somewhere around 270 to get home.

Is it extremely uphill?  What makes that impossible?  Because sick to say... 270 in the air with a 3wood or something is sure as heck not impossible for today's bombers....

Please explain.

TH

Doug Wright

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2009, 03:21:45 PM »
Is it extremely uphill?  What makes that impossible?  Because sick to say... 270 in the air with a 3wood or something is sure as heck not impossible for today's bombers....

Please explain.

TH

TH no it's not uphill--very flat in fact, except the green's raised slightly. I'd think it would be very hard to hold from that distance unless the conditions are softer as they are/have been recently.

Like you, I'm actually quite surprised if true that this is the first time anyone has done it given the ridiculous distances some folks now hit it.

Twitter: @Deneuchre

JESII

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2009, 03:26:23 PM »
Doug and Tom,

this is the first time anyone has actually been on the green in two...some have been over and next to, I even believe one of th eformer assistants hit the green after a chip out from his tee shot...

The diffuculty is that you would have to hit a perfect length tee shot (and pretty accurate) and then a perfect and very long second shot...it's not the total lenght requirement like #15 is...you need both to be really good and accurate.

Tom Huckaby

Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2009, 03:27:58 PM »
Gotcha, Jim.  I can understand that.  Holding a green from 270 remains problematic also, of course.

BUT STILL... thinking of this as "impossible".. well maybe yes, a few years ago.  Now?  Obviously not.

 ;D

BTW isn't part of the answer here that very few ever TRY?

JESII

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2009, 04:12:54 PM »
Yes and Yes, but the 270 carry has to follow a drive of 280 - 330 (depending on the tee) and not a yard more and any yard less adds to the 270 carry requirement...no, obviously not impossible...anymore...

Tom Huckaby

Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2009, 04:18:22 PM »
Yes and Yes, but the 270 carry has to follow a drive of 280 - 330 (depending on the tee) and not a yard more and any yard less adds to the 270 carry requirement...no, obviously not impossible...anymore...

Oh I most definitely GET that there is an end point to the drives.. and that is what makes this hole far more problematic than others. So it's always going to be VERY UNLIKELY that anyone gets a second shot on and holding on that green.  It's just the "impossible" nature of it that has been removed... because of course accurate 280-330 yard drives have become commonplace... but more importantly, long high soft-landing 270+ yard shots are also now doable - thankfully not yet commonplace, but doable.

So again, I am not doubting that reaching that green in two is extremely difficult to do, and will remain so.

I just had a hard time calling it impossible, that's all.

archie_struthers

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2009, 08:13:13 PM »
 8) ;) 8)


As stated almost no one takes a shot at number seven ,. as the percentages of making a big number just outweigh the chance to hit the perfect second , after a perfect first    In my experience the most shots taken at the green were when a long hitter knocked it thruthe fairway by mistake and got a lucky lie in Hells half acre   it happened on rare occasion


however  and this was my bet with Sully ,  I had a premonition that it was time for someone to get home in two....and I was only six months off   ....he very graciuously agreed to pay off as he thought that it wa close enough ...quite sporting of him ....
\so Tom the amount of attempts at this green over the years has been very low. which certainly extended the streak

ciao     archie

PGertner

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2009, 09:08:37 PM »
Personally, I am glad to know others have hit 15 in two.  The day Gary Groh hit 15 in two, the fairway was so dry; I have regretted not irrigating the night before for years....

Niall C

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2009, 08:44:20 AM »
Paul Casey recently hit a 4 iron 269 yards onto a green at the PGA at Wentworth so I imagine that a number of pros could do it fairly readily.

Question; do you need to land it on the green, is it possible to bounce it on ? Sorry if this is a stupid question but not familiar with green complex on this hole.

Niall

JESII

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2009, 09:00:23 AM »
I've attached the following pic.

Using Google Earth to measure....if he played it from the tips, it would have meant hitting a 350 yard drive to the end of the fairway followed by another 260 yard shot to carry on to the front of the green and presumably land soft enough to hold the green.




Niall,

You might get lucky bouncing it through the hazard in front, but the face of the front bunker is 4 or 5 feet and fairly steep...also noteworthy is that the 260 carry is to the very tip of the nose where it's awfully narrow. 10 yards into the green and you have a bit of width. Overall, it's about flat to maybe just barely uphill, no more than eye level...I think it just boils down to the number of people that can hit a shot off the deck 275 or so is pretty small and then for them they need to hit a perfectly measured and placed drive to even have the opportunity.

Niall C

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2009, 09:10:18 AM »
Thanks Jim, stupidly I posted before seeing the aerial provided by Kalen.

Niall

JESII

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Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2009, 09:21:53 AM »
Stupidly, I tried to copy his aerial to my post and failed...either way, the wisdom through experience of Mr. Struthers won the day on his prediction of the feat being acocmplished before the end of this decade...beers on me.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: 7th at Pine Valley .....it happened
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2009, 11:29:45 PM »

Patrick, not to change the subject, but could you share an example or two of Mr. Carbone's needle?  ;D


Bill,

The needle was unsheathed before we hit our tee shots on # 1.
Rocky had previously caddied for two of the fellows in our foursome.
He likes both of them, having spent some time at the dice tables with them in AC, but, nonetheless, he started right in on them.

On the first tee three of us hit good tee shots.
The fourth, a terrific fellow and a very prominent individual in the business and sports world, hit a very poor tee shot that went dead left and not very far.

As we're walking off the tee  Rocky turns to him and says, " Hey Whiffer, what's your 150 club ?"

We laughed at that one all day long.

Everytime the three of us didn't hit a good shot, we'd turn to him and say, "caddy error", of course he would shoot back with a retort.

We really had a great time.
He was fun to be with, part of the experience at PV.

I really liked the guy and the bantering that took place all day long.

I'd certainly like to spend the day with him on my next round.

He had some great lines, I only wish that I had written them down.

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