Toughening Pebble

[THuckaby2]

The new #5 was not built to toughen PBGL, but to make room for real estate.

Pete my man, while I'd fully agree that toughening the course was not the idea behind the new #5, and I'd also agree it did RESULT in some prime real estate for Mr. Schwab et al, wasn't the REAL purpose to get back to the original routing they wanted, ie following 4 down the coast?

I am just asking, sure as heck have no real knowledge here.

I'm also very naive re these things.

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom:

You are right. Sam Morse, in one of his short of cash periods, sold off that parcel to the Jenkins family,regretted it and tried, unsuccesfully, to buy it back for the next fifty years. When the parcel became available, the price was rather astronomical, so Charles Schwab and Don Lucas joined with the Pebble Beach Company to buy it jointly. The two tycoons got their trophy mansions and Pebble Beach got the hole that should have been there in 1919.

If anyone thinks that the original No.5 was an easy hole, then they must be very accomplished golfers indeed.

[THuckaby2]

Muchas gracias, mi amigo Senor Huntley.  That's sure how I THOUGHT it went down.

And you are 100% correct also re the old #5.  Oh man, if that was an easy hole I want to see what a hard one is... They didn't call it the world's only dogleg par 3 for nothing... and that green was a stone bitch.

I've yet to play the new #5 but I sure have seen it... spent a few hours watching people butcher it at the AT&T.

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

I also disagree with Evan that the new fifth is harder than the old. The old hole was significantly harder.

Shivas- I often think about using your pot bunker theory on many holes, everywhere. But the truth is that something of this nature on the 15th at Pebble would not be in keeping with the rest of the course. Plus the downhill nature of that fairway would make them hard (impossible) to see.

The hole has some local knowledge associated with it, the biggest of which is that the approach shot usually plays 5 yds longer than thought. Mostly due to the wind that cannot be felt at ground level, but also partly because that green does start to go back uphill, slightly.

[A_Clay_Man]

Shivas - I agree that the bunker on 16 is a bee you tee full thing. It serves a wonderful purpose sitting on the edge of the dogleg. Since 15 is straight there would be no place to put a menacing beast like 16's.

One other interesting note about this apparent 'easy' hole. After seeing as many people as I have struggle with the tee shot, I still say coming after the climb on 14, 15 is a perfectly balanced hole.

and,

how many times have you made the mistake of blowing up on a percieved easy hole?

[Dan King]

Where'd y'all come from? I'd given up on this thread, figured I'd made my point so well, nobody was gonna argue with me.

Guess I was wrong.

Shivas writes:
I assume that was aimed at me.

It was more aimed toward the title of this thread.

I don't hate change. Given a choice between our current form of government and anarchy, I'd choose anarchy.  That's change.

I don't want to see Pebble changed to make it tougher. It doesn't need toughening. There are plenty of tough courses for those of you who enjoy being beat up.

OK, fine, but let me ask you this: how would you feel about changes that make Pebble easier?

The only change I wouldn't mind seeing at Pebble is change that makes the course better. I don't want easier, I don't want tougher.

Next question is; do your proposed changes make the course better? I don't think they do, because they are out of character with the rest of the course. I don't see a lot of fairway pot bunkers at Pebble. But that's subject to debate. But I might have been more receptive to them under a thread titled Improving Pebble.

I have no problem with No. 15 being a transition hole, a break in the round between No. 14 and No. 16.  It's amazing how many times those little push-over holes come up and bite you in the ass.

Evan_Green writes:
If the intention is to leave things as is- then the new 5th hole at Pebble would never have been built

Amen.

I'm not saying that property shouldn't have been used, but the hole should look more like other holes at Pebble. It is out of character with all of the other holes at Pebble. It also breaks up the flow with that walk backward to the No. 6 tee. I'd probably make the tee on No. 6 closer to No. 5 green so you don't have that weird walk backwards.

Change is good as long as it improves the course-

It was you who picked the title for this thread, right? Back peddling?

Hey everybody wherever you are
They've got a new way of talking and it's gonna go far;
You take the letters in the words, turn 'em around;
Say the last one first and check out the sound,
Talk Backwards

I know what you're thinking; that it sure sound strange
You talked forward so long that it's hard to change
But it's just like metric once you get the drift
You twist your tongue and give your palate
A lift.  You take your favorite phrase, read
It in the mirror, practice that about a half
A year, and then sdrawkcab gnikiat mi em ta kool
You're a regular talking bassackwards fool
Talk backwards

Talking backwards is the new sensation,
Talking backwards is sweeping the nation
You amaze your friends when you start to rap
Don't say pass the butter, say rettub eht ssap.
Rettub eht ssap?  Rettub eht ssap
And if you're out with a girl and she's a
Little bit shy don't say I love you; say
Uoy evol I. uoy evol I and I always will, Now
See if that doesn't take off the chill
Talk Backwards

Just the otherday I was walking down the street
And there was this little girl I thought I'd
Like to meet.  I said excuse me miss but
Sserd taht teg uoy erehw. thgin ta tuo emoc
Yeht srats ekil era hteet ruoy
And I said am I getting through to you yet
She said you're a gent in the first degree
And I love it when you talk backwards to me
Talk backwards
--Steve Goodman and Mike Smith

[TEPaul]

Dan King:

You and I have had our differences on a lot of issues on this website but on this issue I'm behind you 100% old buddy!

There are probably a number of great classic courses that have tons of history to them that maybe could be improved somehow but should probably just be left alone anyway just because of what they are!

If you'd like why don't you make a list of courses you think fit into that category of being such that even if they could be improved somehow at this point probably shouldn't be just because of what they are!

[Dan King]

TEPaul writes:
If you'd like why don't you make a list of courses you think fit into that category of being such that even if they could be improved somehow at this point probably shouldn't be just because of what they are!

Sounds a little too much like homework.  With my finals next week, you'll forgive me for not wanting to add to my load.

Courses change. They are living things, and are constantly changing. There is no way to stop change. But when making a decision about changing a course, especially the courses we call classics, we need to err on the side of caution.

"I didn't want to change the name on the towels."
 --Lee Trevino (on marrying second wife Claudia after divorcing first wife Claudia)