[Dan Herrmann]

I was thinking about GCA, and I came to think of something I'll call "The Journey".

My wife was laid off earlier this year, so we're walking about 90% of the time.  The walk at French Creek is challenging, but nothing horrible (if it's not 90 degrees F).  But it has something very special  -  From the first tee to the 18th green, it's like your favorite hike - it's got views, adventure, a bit of mystery.  But when you're done, you're really glad you took The Journey.

I've never had the good luck to actually play Pine Valley, but I've walked it 3 times, and I get the same feeling - it's a real Journey.  Anther course where a course really felt like a Journey was Highlands Links.  Pacific Dunes sure qualifies.

I think a lot of has to do with hole isolation, but I think the key is that every hole has its own character.  And the occasional peek of what's ahead or what you've already experienced.

Obviously, you can have a great golf course without a Journey type of experience!

Does good golf course architecture include a sense of The Journey, or is it just serendipity when it happens?   

What are other good examples of courses where The Journey is a key factor in the architect's success?

Thanks!

[Phil McDade]

Dan:

Interesting topic; I've walked, but not played, The Old Course in St. Andrews, and there is a real sense of leaving town for a pleasant stroll, then turning around and heading back in. The town just keeps getting closer and closer until it envelopes you on the 18th green. A great walk.

[Ben Sims]

Phil,

Great topic.  Three courses come to mind that are extremely representative of the concept you broach.

1) Bandon Trails feels like a complete replication of the journey it takes to actually get to Bandon.  Wind and air, grass, small trees, deep forest, back to sand and wind and ocean.  Very cool.

2) The course in my hometown, The Lion Golf Club (Bremen Georgia) has always felt like a Sunday walk in the woods with my Grandfather.  Rolling hills, back down to the hollows and through the creeks.  Not the best course around, but a damn fine journey through classic Georgia Piedmont.

3) Um...Pacific Dunes.  That's all I need to say.

Take the concept one step further Phil, how about a good journey of both terrain and scenery combined with crescendos, rises and falls in the actual difficulty of the shot making.  Never been there, but our friend Mr. Gray seems partial to a course like Cruden Bay for the total package.

[Bill_McBride]

Dan's initial post also points out how important it is that each hole be completely unique from the others.  My personal #1 criterion for ranking courses is memorability - how clearly do I remember each hole.  I love the idea of The Journey - Friars Head is a good example and so is Cypress Point - but to me being able to clearly remember each hole means each has to be different from each of the others.

By contrast I think back to Jacaranda CC in Plantation, Florida, where at least half the holes had FW bunkers left and right pinching the landing areas and greenside bunkers at 7 and 5 o'clock.   Boring, I can't remember more than three holes.

[Dan Herrmann]

Take the concept one step further Phil, how about a good journey of both terrain and scenery combined with crescendos, rises and falls in the actual difficulty of the shot making.  Never been there, but our friend Mr. Gray seems partial to a course like Cruden Bay for the total package.

I apologize up front for being a homer here, but what the heck.
My home course, French Creek (Gil Hanse) has what you describe in spades.  It starts with a nice par 4 along a ridgetop.  From there you hit a wonderful long vista-filled tee shot to a long dogleg par 4 into the French Creek valley (yes, there is a French Creek at French Creek).

 Let me fast forward to the 8th tee - as you descend to the tee from the 7th green, you see a vista of the 1st and 2nd holes back across the valley.  You can see the holes, but they can't see you.  It's really strikingly beautiful.  Then, on the tee you have views of the farms in the distance.

I won't bore folks with a hole by hole account, so let me zip to the 14th.  This hole hovers about 40' above the creek.  The tee provides a view of the 1st green directly ahead - but 3/4 of a mile away!  The tee shot is to a skyline fairway and you play your second to a green seemingly floating about 20' below.   All the while you have a peek at the sneaky 15th in the distance.

It's about a 6 mile walk from the 1st tee to the 18th green, but it's just so much fun.  What else can a member want?

[Jay Flemma]

Lessee...Monterey Peninsula Country Club Shore Course, Tobacco Road, Pacific Dunes...I'm write more soon...

[Peter Pallotta]

Dan -

I must be getting old before my time, or maybe I was just born old. For me it's train stations and trains -- and the bulky and inefficient American trains at that, none of those sleek French or Japanese bullets.  The human and lovely scale of Grand Central or Union Station here in Toronto, the windows looking out at the passing countryside at 60 miles an hour.  Airports make me depressed, as if it's "1984" but with brighter lights; and I guess there's no place that I need to see so badly (or need to get to so quickly) that I'd put myself in a sardine can at 30,000 feet to watch Angels and Demons at 700 miles an hour.  The 6,400 yard course, with gently undulating land, starting at a modest club-house. It can even bore me a little, I don't mind. Better that than the risk of being bombarded with so much information that I find myself rushing even though I've got no place to go. Maybe a senior's league somewhere will have me (except that the seniors are probably trying hard to stay young at heart....)

Peter  

[Ben Sims]

Whoops, I meant Dan, not Phil.  Hell, I meant everybody

[Dan Herrmann]

Jay - What IS it about those courses that personifies The Journey?

Let's take Pacific Dunes.  For me it's the brief visit to the ocean.  You know it's there on the 1st tee, but soon it envelopes you.  The saddest part of PD is the 16th when your Journey starts to end - you're headed back east, away from the Ocean.  You say good bye up on the 17th tee and the journey is completed as you return home back up 18.

[PCCraig]

Shoreacres is a fantastic walk. You really feel like you are exploring the property, not following a routing.

[Jay Flemma]

Dan, I just think that it's the feelingof being away from the rest of the wprld when you're out there...I love 17 too though, BTW.  18 is fine as well...you still feel out there when you're done since your still in the middle of the dunes.  I love TR because it looks and plays like so little else out there.

[Tom_Doak]

I must assume from the posts so far that none of the posters have played Cypress Point ... that's the course which first made such an impression on me regarding the sequencing of its routing to explore the corners of the property.

It is not always possible to route a course that way ... sometimes, you have to fight just to get all the holes to fit in.  (And, Dan, no offense intended, but my first impression was that French Creek was more one of those routings, because they had to dodge around several wetlands.  Glad to hear it is enjoyable in the end.)  The shape of the property can also be a limiting factor, and so can clubhouse location, or the insistence on returning at #9. 

But, when you have the chance to create something with such character, it would be a major failing to miss the opportunity.  I don't think Cape Kidnappers quite got it -- it explores lots of areas, but there were so many cool spots we couldn't get to, and the nature of the ridges meant most of the holes had to be parallel.  Stone Eagle, on the other hand, has lots of parallel holes but holes like #8 and #12 manage to break them up and keep you guessing what will happen next.  You can bet I'm always thinking about it, anyway.

[Peter Pallotta]

Tom - a question:

If you took 3 or 4 architects whose work you respect, how many of them do you think would've routed Cypress Point the way Mackenzie did?

I ask because, if you answer none, I might conclude that Mackenzie's routing isn't the obvious one -- and then maybe conclude, given your high praise for it, that the surprising routing is the best routing.

But if you answer most/all of them, I might conclude that the best/ultimate routing was the one Mackenzie chose, and that it was the obvious one -- but then I might wonder where the surprise is in the journey.

I don't know if my conclusions are sound, I'm just using them to try to make clear what I'm asking.

Peter

[Bill_McBride]

I must assume from the posts so far that none of the posters have played Cypress Point ... that's the course which first made such an impression on me regarding the sequencing of its routing to explore the corners of the property.

It is not always possible to route a course that way ... sometimes, you have to fight just to get all the holes to fit in.  (And, Dan, no offense intended, but my first impression was that French Creek was more one of those routings, because they had to dodge around several wetlands.  Glad to hear it is enjoyable in the end.)  The shape of the property can also be a limiting factor, and so can clubhouse location, or the insistence on returning at #9. 

But, when you have the chance to create something with such character, it would be a major failing to miss the opportunity.  I don't think Cape Kidnappers quite got it -- it explores lots of areas, but there were so many cool spots we couldn't get to, and the nature of the ridges meant most of the holes had to be parallel.  Stone Eagle, on the other hand, has lots of parallel holes but holes like #8 and #12 manage to break them up and keep you guessing what will happen next.  You can bet I'm always thinking about it, anyway.

Tom, see post #3 where I mentioned both Cypress Point and Friars Head as courses with dramatic routings that take you on a journey to the farthest corners of the property AND in and out of different terrain and environments.  These routings, plus Pacific Dunes for sure, create excitement, anticipation, and memorability.  You are fortunate to have had an opportunity to work on such a great site.  Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw were equally fortunate to be able to work with Friars Head, although it was a more difficult property than either ocean front course.  At FH you have to work a bit to see Long Island Sound, and their work in the potato field is excellent.  I love the par 5s that connect it all.

[Sam Maryland]

I think Bethpage Red is a good journey given some of the vistas that include other courses.  Royal Portrush Dunluce another!

As an aside, you should get yourself a good pedometer, it would probably surprise you how far you walk from the time you get out of the car until you walk off the 18th green.

[mike_beene]

Thanks for helping me finally identify why I can never get Pine Needles far from my short list of memorable courses.I am not usually a fan of real estate courses,but the wide circle the course runs with no hint of returning nines feels like a journey that covers a large property.

[Ed Oden]

Bill, I second your nomination of Friars Head.  It is so unique from the moment you are on the property.  The long ride from the parking lot through the par 3 course, past the range and between a few holes just to get to the clubhouse only adds to the anticipation and the sense of isolation.  And that is before you tee off.  It gets better from there. 

I feel similarly about Yeamans Hall, where the drive from the gate down the dirt road past all the trees with Spanish moss hanging low and then right through the middle of the first fairway sets the tone for a step back in time.  Mix in Yeamans' unique maintenance meld and you have a one of a kind experience.

That being said, the number one journey in my book would have to be Sand Hills.  Just getting there is so much a part of the experience.  Mile after mile of nothing but rolling sand hills spectacularly disconnected from any sign of civilization.  And then the course is just...there.  Virtually perfect.  It is a true field of dreams.  Wouldn't surprise me if Shoeless Joe paid a visit every now and then.

Ed

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom Doak,
There are a couple of inter-hole walks at FC that are gnarly due to the wetland issue.  But if you're with a good friend the time passes quickly. 

Ed Oden,
Great stories.  Thanks fo sharing!

Bill McBride,
I think you hit it when you said "the farthest corners of the property AND in and out of different terrain and environments."  I love when certain holes throw such different types of challenges but yet belong together.  Sometimes I chuckle when I think about The Journey ahead of me when I'm walking up the 1st fairway.  I can turn around and there, about 1/2 mile away up on a hill is the 14th fairway.  It's a tease, and it's very cool.  It's also very cool being able to see several holes from both Stonewall courses across the street.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

When thinking of a journey, the back nine at Crystal Downs and the climbs up and down the dunes at Prairie Dunes come to mind.

[Sean_A]

One of the best journies I know of is Pennard.  Ok, so the course is on a special site, but Braid was very clever in how he routed the course.  The odd thing is I don't really give Braid much credit for being an overly creative archie.  He strikes me more of a working man's archie.  Get the job done quickly, to a reasonable standard for a reasonable fee.  However, at Pennard Braid leaves the player anticipating the entire way round.  One doesn't get a special view until on the 4th green.  These views increase in intensity through the 7th.  Cool down a bit for a hole then coming down the 9th another stunning view is offered.  This on and off visual delight continues through the 12th with #13 giving us the full effect of the Pennard Pill.  Once again Braid takes us away from the sea views until the 16th and 17th - which are probably the best views of all.  What is amazing is that similar to watching a movie, the golfer suspends belief so the views can really sink in. 

For any of you archies out there that know Pennard, does the routing make sense to you?  Are there things you would change to make the experience better?

Ciao 

[Tim Gavrich]

I think an advantage in creating the "Journey" effect is having non-returning nines, although there are exceptions.  Pinehurst No. 2 felt like a journey when I played it a few summers ago; it is such a fight for 18 holes that you feel like you've accomplished something just by making it to the finish.  Sunningdale (Old) had the Journey effect in spades when I played it last summer.

As for courses that do return to the clubhouse after 9, I would put forth Crumpin-Fox up in northern MA as a good journey course.  Say what you will about Rulewich and such, but playing there is like playing at some faraway summer camp; it's a neat feeling.

[Eric Smith]

I love a good journey in a golf course.  I thought Lookout Mountain was a great walk, a great routing and a great journey.

[Tom_Doak]

Peter:

I can't answer your question exactly, because I don't know how much property the architect had to choose from when Cypress Point was laid out.  The peninsula was far less developed then, but I don't know if they could have gone deeper into the woods or wider to the right if they'd wanted.

If the property boundaries were close to where they are now, then it's hard to see how you would route the course much differently.  But I really can't imagine too many other architects (including Seth Raynor, who did his own routing but a routing that no one has seen) getting the switchback of 6-7-8 to work as well as MacKenzie did, or finding the 8th and 9th holes generally.  I do think not many others would have gone back into the woods for 10-11 as the Doctor did, they probably would have played off the high dunes down toward the shore, cramming more "woods" holes into the front nine and missing #12 altogether.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

I've thought about your previous question a bit on how others may have routed CPC if they only had the land where the course sits now to work with.  I wonder if they would have used the large dune in the middle of the property in such brilliant fashion. 

As it is now the 3rd green, 6th green, 7th tee, 9th green, 10th tee, 11th green, and 12th tee all take advantage of it and use it in one way or another.

[Nick Church]

This past Friday, my friend & I commented on this exact subject.

We played Victoria National with a forecaddie.  His service to us lent the time & freedom to walk many of the holes.  He was quick to point out hidden paths to the next tee box.  My friend and I surely would have missed these passages since they were blended into the bordering terrain.

After the sixth hole, my friend Scott commented how thankful he was for the forecaddie.  This was his first experience walking a course sans golf bag.  Scott described how much of the view he would have missed in a golf cart.  I thought about it & realized he was right, of course.  Carts act like public transportation, whereby you get in & go, but miss the slow walk through the neighborhood.

At least for Victoria National, the integrated walking passages between holes give a sense of drama.  The next hole slowly unveils itself as you emerge from the corridors to the tee.

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