Rustic Canyon and Wild Horse

[brad_miller]

These two are without a doubt the two best bargins in public golf in America. Both are FUN with the ground game option in  play. Both seem to get foursomes around their course in 4 hours and strategy is there on almost every hole, many times in subtle in nature. Both have been built with small amounts of earth moved and look natural to their wonderful sites. I suspect only a handful of people have played both because of the time they have been open and their locations.

Wild Horse.... F&F golf course in America!, routing takes into account the ever present wind, wind direction change will yield a completely different golf course. Golfweek has it ranked as #35 Modern and that might be low. Par 3's are avg-good but the 4's and 5's are wonderful with the only drawbacks being the similarity of 3 par 4's #'s 1,6 and 16 with #16 being the best and 2 par 5's on the backside being somewhat similar.

Rustic Canyon.... Much better par 3's, greater variety in the remaining 4's and 5's, wind in play but not to the degree of Wild Horse. Sandy soil and charming canyon location allow for year round play. Both have wonderful greens with movement and nice internal contour. I have RC as my fav by a nose.

[THuckaby2]

I might have an answer for ya next week, Brad!  But you're right, I'd have to guess the total sum of people that have played both these courses is you, Cirba, Childs.  Has Ran played Wild Horse?

Whichever one prefers, the building of these two - plus Barona Creek and Apache Stronghold - is such a great sign/trend for public golf it, in the words of the great Armenian, makes my heart sing.

Here's the question also:  is there a firmer and faster golf course in the United States than Wild Horse?  Oh yeah - the miniature golf course near my house.  But that's astroturf on asphalt.  That's about the only way you could get conditions firmer and faster than WH!  Was that fun or what?

BTW, I would say 8 and 16 are similar par 4's, as are 1 and 7... 18 is different in that you have a CARRY bunker near the green, really the only greenside bunker that must be carried on the course... I know you guys didn't dig 16 as much as me, but I really liked it.  It was "Shinnecockian" to me in its brutality with the raised green...  I also loved your idea for the back tee on the par 3 11th... put it up on the hill and now that's a golf hole!  But then it would be sorta similar to #13 in distance... hmmm.... oh well, it's great as it is - there's just so much room out there, it's fun to speculate on what else might be done.  Dan & Dave have a GEM in any case.

TH

[GeoffreyC]

Pretty cool being one of three people on earth to have played both of those courses  

Brad, Mike and I did a match play between the two courses (disclaimer is I don't really like this comparison method) and we had RC winning by 1 up or 2 and 1.  I think that puts RC in very good company as one of the best modern courses around.

Both are without doubt the greatest bargains in public golf this side of Bethpage Black and maybe WH is a better bargain with season memberships at $400 individual and $450 family!

Wild Horse is a real authentic links golf course and it was as firm and fast as anything I've ever played except perhaps Ireland during their drought 2 years ago.  The wind was a constant 35 mph and bunkers 80 yards short of the green needed to be factored into play because clearing it by more then a bit would result in running through the green!  Lots of central hazards to avoid and the greensites were quite difficult.  The short par 4 16th at WH is one of the most diabolical holes I've ever played.  I drove within 10 yards of the front of the green in one of the rounds and still didn't make par because I was remembering the impossible back bunker that awaited a shot hit a bit too firmly.  

RC is a bit more complicated a design for lack of a better way to explain their differences.  As minimalist as it is, RC is still more constructed then WH but the property allowed Gil to create some holes with more interest.  

Both are great courses and better role models for what public golf could be in the US.  I don't see why 1000 courses like it couldn't be built given sites that I see all the time in my travels.  

[JohnV]

Sorry Tom, but it is 4.  I've played both of them twice now.  They are definitely two of the best new courses I've played and for the price you can't beat either one.  Since I read this post, I've been trying to decide which one I like best and I think I need to go play both of them at least 5 more times each before deciding.

[THuckaby2]

Aha, Mr. V!  I didn't know you had made it out to Wild Horse... mucho apologies, mi amigo!

And great idea re playing each five more times.  Take me with ya, man!

TH

[brad_miller]

Great thread, hard to be wrong Geoff to use a different method I'd have RC winning the par 3's and 5's and lets assume a half on the par 4's. What do you guys think are the 5 best holes on both combined properties. We might even let RJ comment since he walked RC the week before it opened

Calling Mike Cirba....

[RJ_Daley]

OK, I'll take my shot.  It is a truly enjoyable task to even try to say which course is better.  I can't say since I didn't actually play RC.  I wouldn't say unless I could play RC multiple times to catch up to my 15 or so rounds at WH.  I can say one thing without reservation.  You guys did not see WH at its best.  Last fall in first week of Oct., the place was magical.  I have never seen anything like it, and it may be like catching lightening in a bottle.  It was peak, tops, and the ultimate.  But, I sure am glad you fellows had a good time.  I really think WH is what golf should look and feel like.  I also feel that RC will have quite a challenge to match the down home hospitality and welcoming atmosphere that you feel when dealing with the staff there at WH.  But, I'm certainly willing to give it another try...

If every State had about 5 or so Wild Horses, the state of golf would be very different, much to the better.

[Mike_Cirba]

If anyone needs further evidence that classic golf architecture is rising out of the ashes of the overblown, overpriced, overhyped, and overshaped courses of the "modern age", one needs only to get their butt out to Moorpark or Gothenberg, plunk down their $35-40, throw their bag over their shoulder and just see how much fun golf can be.

Yeah, I have a favorite of the two, which I've shared with close friends, but both courses are sooooo good, and so worthy of praise that I don't see that sharing my biases here would have much beneficial purpose.

Do you want to hear the really good news, instead?

The good news is that there is absolutely NO reason that 1000+ similar courses couldn't be built all across this country.  NONE.  

The minimalist construction, line of charm strategies, and frugal amenities could be built on central New York farmlands, Kansan prairies, and Nevadan deserts.  

Do you remember driving past open land as a kid and envisioning wonderful golf holes?  Well, that's what you'll find at both Rustic Canyon and Wild Horse.  

 

[GeoffreyC]

Mike- I'll second what you just posted!