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Steve_ Shaffer

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Papago update with pictures- Report of Opening on Dec 6
« on: October 21, 2008, 07:51:47 AM »
Opening is now scheduled for December. Clubhouse has been demolished rather than restored. New yardage from the tips is 7300+. Pictures look real good. I can't wait:

http://phoenix.gov/SPORTS/papago.html
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 10:11:17 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tom Yost

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Re: Papago update with pictures
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 03:05:26 PM »
Thanks for posting that Steve.   I feel ashamed that I'm getting scooped by a guy 2500 miles away in Philly!!   :o

Ed Gowan (Executive Director AGA) and David Barnes (President of the Arizona Golf Foundation) appeared on a local radio station's weekly golf talk show in early September to discuss the Papago restoration. 

(if interested, you can download the show here:
http://www.golfazradio.com/show-archive.html
Choose the "9-4-08 Part 2" show, fast forward to about 31 minutes into the program)

Some things that were discussed:

They said two consultants evaluated the old clubhouse and both concluded that it was going to be too costly to renovate.   So it was razed.   :'( 

It was indicated that the project would be a "work in progress," and that when the course re-opens, all the work won't be completed.   

They mentioned ongoing tree work and how native trees will gradually replace the existing eucalyptus and pine mix that currently populate the property.  They mentioned that 54 trees were removed. 

I visited the property about two weeks ago, and although I really couldn't see much, I did note:

The clubhouse debris remained in a large pile and no sign of any site prep for a new building.  I suspect they will be working out of a trailer when the reopening happens.

Still a couple of holes not yet grown in.

Lots of trees, both living and dead, still remain and from what I could see and in the pictures from the website Steve linked to,  still crowding the playing corridors. (see pic of #3 tee).  If they took out  54, they need to take out another 154.   Hoping this is part of the "work in progress..."

No sign of new cart paths on the 2nd or 3rd holes.  I think these could be completed in two months before reopening and I certainly hope so - wouldn't be so great to begin the compaction process of the new turf all over again.

I'm hopeful that they do it right and am looking forward to playing the "restored" Papago.



Forrest Richardson

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Re: Papago update with pictures
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 09:08:51 PM »
I do not think you can call it a restoration, after all — the powers that be have gone on record that "there were no old plans to go by..."
 ::)

— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

SB

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Re: Papago update with pictures
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 09:17:44 PM »
I'm not familiar with the Riviera type of Bermuda.  Is that a new variety?

Tom Yost

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Re: Papago update with pictures
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 02:57:00 PM »
I do not think you can call it a restoration, after all — the powers that be have gone on record that "there were no old plans to go by..."
 ::)




A restoration...   with 12 new bunkers added!!   ???

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Papago update with pictures
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2008, 11:44:28 PM »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Ryan Farrow

Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2008, 03:11:07 AM »
$115 for those w/o Phoenix city card. Does that mean non-residents?


Also check the rates for TPC Scottsdale desert course. looks like they dumped the walking rate, and we are now up to $75 for in-state. So much for the god damn recession, idk who will be playing these courses.

Tom Yost

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Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2008, 09:05:43 AM »
I'm not completely understanding the Phoenix card.  They show two rates, with the "Premium Card" rate lower?   

http://phoenix.gov/SPORTS/clubhouse.html

Perhaps the $100 card anyone can buy and the $50 card is for Maricopa County residents ?  It's not too clear.

Also: check out some of the reader comments to the AZ Central article Steve posted.  Seems like we have some folks that may have move here from San Francisco...  :-*

Mike_Cirba

Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 10:19:14 AM »
For those who are familiar with the course, do the pictures in the article look like a marked departure?  A significant improvement?   A better maintained architectural loss?

Any thoughts?

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2008, 10:47:39 AM »
Mike

I would say this is more of a clean up than anything else. Turf quality should improve. Trees will be removed but new ones will be planted. The course is being lengthened from the tips.Bunkers will be cleaned up. The course was neglected for many years but was still playable. This past March the greens were generally in good condition.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 10:49:26 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2008, 11:14:32 AM »
I'm not familiar with the Riviera type of Bermuda.  Is that a new variety?

Its a seeded bermudagrass.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2008, 12:13:54 PM »
read a report that golf rounds in phoenix HAVE PLUMMETED the last two months...so it will be interesting to see if the rate here and at other courses stay that high
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Ryan Farrow

Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2008, 02:07:58 PM »
Paul, from what I heard(anyone correct me if I am wrong) there were more rounds played in the summer this year than last, in Phoenix. If I were a betting man this is going to be an awful year, but I wouldn't count on anyone dropping there peak season prices, I have yet to see it and it looks like this confirms it. I don't think many people from out of state or w/o this card would be willing to part with $115 to play Papago. Especially when they show up and don't see a clubhouse.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2008, 04:50:29 PM »
Paul, from what I heard(anyone correct me if I am wrong) there were more rounds played in the summer this year than last, in Phoenix. If I were a betting man this is going to be an awful year, but I wouldn't count on anyone dropping there peak season prices, I have yet to see it and it looks like this confirms it. I don't think many people from out of state or w/o this card would be willing to part with $115 to play Papago. Especially when they show up and don't see a clubhouse.

just to be clear Ryan, the thing i read discussed amount of play starting in Sept, i.e., after summertime, or about when the fiscal s#@t hit the fan...

be interesting to see if prices start to drop in Jan or so , if demand is low
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2008, 11:11:57 AM »
They sure did use the word restore in that article, frequently.

The old ANGC greenskeeper is a special touch. He seemed most sensitive to the architect's original intent.

How about those Men's club's?

Hopefully, Mr. Davis will do a follow up on their new feelings? If the new price tag hasn't crowded them out.

Any reports on the price tag for all this? 


 
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2008, 11:41:05 AM »
Adam,

The total cost is about 10M including a new club house which hasn't been built yet. There is no breakdown to my knowledge as to the separate cost of the course and the clubhouse.

www.cybergolf.com/golf_news/work_begins_on_restoration_of_papago_golf_course

The Men's Club even has their own website:

www.papagomensgolf.com
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2008, 06:14:09 PM »
They are auctioning off the first tee time

from http://www.azgolf.org/news/pressShow.asp?CategoryID=9&id=429

"An online auction for this historic first foursome at Papago will be held on eBay and will run Monday, Nov. 24, through Wednesday, Dec. 3, with the minimum bid starting at $500. To make a bid, go to www.ebay.com and keyword search Papago Golf. All proceeds from the auction will go to the Arizona Golf Foundation, a non-profit arm of the Arizona Golf Association, and 100 percent of the money raised will go to the Papago Clubhouse fund."


Clubhouse fund?  Sounds like the city has hired a freakin' charity case.


John Sheehan

Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2008, 12:43:47 AM »
I'll be playing the course on Sunday, Dec. 7 with a gaggle of other writers and will gladly report back to the tree house.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2008, 10:00:05 AM »
I think it is great that they have spent the money on the course but if they now price it out of the range of many then what's the sense of doing it?  To me, the better strategy would be to give an advantage to the locals in so far as advance tee times but don't price the visitors out of the market. 

Kirk Gill

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Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2008, 10:11:12 AM »
Forgive me for bringing this up, what with the hoopla of the grand re-opening and all, but in the end who was the architect of record on the re-do? I seem to remember reading about some issues regarding master plans perhaps being used inappropriately, etc. I don't mean to be a muckraker, but I'd be interested in any information folks can provide.

Thanks.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Tom Yost

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Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2008, 10:23:08 AM »
Forgive me for bringing this up, what with the hoopla of the grand re-opening and all, but in the end who was the architect of record on the re-do? I seem to remember reading about some issues regarding master plans perhaps being used inappropriately, etc. I don't mean to be a muckraker, but I'd be interested in any information folks can provide.

Thanks.

They keep mentioning a fellow by the name of Billy Fuller, who's only claim to fame seems to be a previous stint as the superintendent at Augusta National GC. 

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Opening Dec 6
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2008, 07:52:15 AM »
Bill Huffman reports favorably on his visit to Papago:


www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/131717
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Report of Opening on Dec 6
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2008, 10:12:00 AM »
Here is the AGA's report on the opening weekend:

www.azgolf.org/news/pressShow.asp?CategoryID=9&id=433
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Papago update with pictures- Report of Opening on Dec 6
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2008, 10:58:15 AM »
Played golf with a guy who is a long time men's club member at Papago who got to play it last weekend.

He was quite familiar with the controversy surrounding the choice of the redevelopment/management team, but nonetheless was quite enthusiastic about the new look.  "It's like playing a different course."   He indicated that he and many others were concerned about losing the tree-lined look, but was amazed by the difference the opened up corridors and expanded views the tree removal provided.

He did indicate that the greens, being still new, were pretty bumpy.  I suppose this is to be expected.

He also told me about a change I hadn't heard about to the ninth hole where the old lake was filled in and a new hazard created that fronts the green.

All in all, he seemed most positive but agreed with me that the term "restoration" should not be applied to the work that was done at Papago.

Looking forward to getting out there soon.