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Sean_A

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Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« on: October 16, 2008, 03:59:34 AM »
What are you cheeseheads up to?  Lawsonia has slowly become a 5 pound coin size dot on my radar, yet you lot keep holding the goods.  What gives? 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Doug Siebert

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2008, 04:28:46 AM »
There was a group from GCA playing that up there last week, presumably one of them had a camera.

I was hoping to rearrange my schedule to be able to join them but unfortunately it was not to be.  Too bad, given the weather here I suspect they had some spectacularly unseasonably warm weather for mid October up there!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Phil McDade

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2008, 07:19:20 AM »
Sean:

GCA poster and Lawsonia fan Dan Moore promises pictures soon from a weekend foray up there.

Richard Boult

Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2008, 10:51:41 AM »
While we're waiting for Dan, there's an existing photo tour of Lawsonia listed in our photo tour directory:

http://delicious.com/golfclubatlas/Wisconsin

In fact, this thread already has photos by Dan Moore... and Rick Shefchik and Brad Swanson.

Adam Clayman

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2008, 11:00:43 AM »
Sean, Pix don't do justice.
 You are wise to seek-out this gem. I'm not sure there's a bad hole. However, the 14th is completely out of character. I can't decide if that's a bad thing. It is surrounded by trees and the difference is palpable. So, I don't want to let any tree bias I may or may not have affect my judgement. Although, when I recently was back, after a 17 year hiatus, it was the one hole I had zero recollection of.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Phil McDade

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2008, 11:39:24 AM »
Sean, Pix don't do justice.
 You are wise to seek-out this gem. I'm not sure there's a bad hole. However, the 14th is completely out of character. I can't decide if that's a bad thing. It is surrounded by trees and the difference is palpable. So, I don't want to let any tree bias I may or may not have affect my judgement. Although, when I recently was back, after a 17 year hiatus, it was the one hole I had zero recollection of.

Adam:

I'm not sure I agree with your sentiment that 14 is "completey out of character" with the rest of Lawsonia. It has a significantly pushed-up green, similar to what you find on many other holes, a steep backside falloff, and a deep fronting bunker of the kind Langford was fond of building there. I will grant that it plays the easiest of the five par 3s there, in part because it's somewhat downhill, not terribly long, and not subject to the winds like some of the others area.

Having said that, I agree that it's overly treed; somewhere floating on a thread somewhere, there is a picture of the 14th without those tall pine trees backing it. It gives the appearance of nothing behind the green -- a piece of visual deception that would make one think twice about being too aggressive on the tee shot. Now, those back and side trees give one a sense of comfort on the tee that is not really replicated elsewhere on the course.

Question - what did you think of #4? I stand by my previous arguments that it's a near-Redan...

Sean_A

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 11:44:45 AM »
Sean, Pix don't do justice.
 You are wise to seek-out this gem. I'm not sure there's a bad hole. However, the 14th is completely out of character. I can't decide if that's a bad thing. It is surrounded by trees and the difference is palpable. So, I don't want to let any tree bias I may or may not have affect my judgement. Although, when I recently was back, after a 17 year hiatus, it was the one hole I had zero recollection of.

Adam

You are so right, but it is surprising how much one can learn from pix.  Besides, its all I can aspire to for the moment.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Rich Goodale

Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 12:10:29 PM »
As I understand it, Lawsonia is a public golf course.  It's patrons cannot afford luxuries such as cameras these days....... :'(

Adam Clayman

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 12:45:53 PM »
Phil, When I first read a description of what a Redan was, I immediately thought of the 4th at Lawsonia. Having played many redan like holes, I find the one in Green Lake to be more Redan than most. Mostly due to the uphill nature and the shot shaped it tempts you into hitting. The only divergence is the greens cant is not adequate enough for most descriptions of a Redan.  But, I'm with you it is mostly redanish.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Richard Hetzel

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 01:31:38 PM »
Ask and you shall receive. A friend just played and took pics, as soon as I get them I will post them!!!
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

J_ Crisham

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2008, 04:49:48 PM »
I played with Dan etal this past weekend at Lawsonia. Spectacular shape-greens were running very quick. Temps were 72-78 degrees,crystal clear skies. $23 after 2pm. $45 on Sunday at 8:30am. I also just played at Chicago Golf Club and have to say they are comparable. Better elevation changes at Lawsonia. This is a top 10 course for me. Best bang for your buck. One would have to be insane to spend $400 to play Whistling Straits versus $45 for Lawsonia.                Jack

Dan Moore

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2008, 06:10:14 PM »
I'll have some photos by early next week when I get home from a work trip. 

We were a week before the autumnal peak for colors but quite nice in regardless.  Course was as good as I have seen it ever in over 25 years of playing there.  Mike Berwick the super is doing a fantastic job completing the recommendations of Ron Forse.  Greens recapture almost complete, fairways widened to recapture true playing widths, and fescue growth complements significant tree removal.  A rolling regime on the greens and early September aerification had the green speeds the best I have seen.  I highly recommend getting there this weekend if you can it should look and play fantastic.

Until I get home next week and can work up my photos for a full course tour these from last weekeend will have to do. 

The Underated 5th Originally a par 4???


The Famous Boxcar Hole
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Bradley Anderson

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2008, 06:48:44 PM »
Dan,

I'm really looking forward to seeing some of your pictures from Lawsonia. Make sure to provide some hole by hole descriptions too.


Brad Swanson

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 07:34:51 PM »
The careful observer will take notice of the severe drop off left of the 1st green seen just above Eric "claw" Terhorst in Dan's 1st picture.  Playing the hole you don't even notice it, which, in and of itself, is pretty amazing and a great example of the skills of Langford and Moreau to disguise such a dramatic feature.

Brad

Richard Hetzel

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2008, 09:29:41 PM »
I cannot wait to play here. Just looking at the pics, I could be very content playing this course forever. The amount of architectural creativity here is incredible! Pics courtesy of Brad from Golfwrx.com






























« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 09:40:08 PM by Rich Hetzel »
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Rob Rigg

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2008, 11:16:43 PM »
Thanks for the pics, this course looks fascinating.

Do they need some sort of tree removal program at Lawsonia or is it just the angle of some of the pictures?

I might be mistaken, but it seems like the trees are a lot more ominous than they were in Ran's course review from a few years back?

Doug Siebert

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2008, 03:30:29 AM »
Having said that, I agree that it's overly treed; somewhere floating on a thread somewhere, there is a picture of the 14th without those tall pine trees backing it. It gives the appearance of nothing behind the green -- a piece of visual deception that would make one think twice about being too aggressive on the tee shot. Now, those back and side trees give one a sense of comfort on the tee that is not really replicated elsewhere on the course.

Question - what did you think of #4? I stand by my previous arguments that it's a near-Redan...


The #7 Boxcar hole has plenty of trees backing it as well, so if you get a sense of comfort from them being behind 14 you should get it on 7 too.  Though I suppose 14 would look like the ball might never stop rolling if you went long since that hill goes on for a while IIRC.  It would be interesting to remove all the trees and shave that down for oh say 50 yards behind the green ;)  Or would that leave us in the line of fire from people teeing off from 15?  I can't remember exactly how the routing works between 14 and 15.

Personally I don't derive comfort from trees behind a green, that just means if I go long I might not even be able to hit the high flop and give myself a chance at par.  On my home course where many of the greens have some pretty severe back to front slopes if you go long you might be 15 feet below the level of the green with a fast green running hard away from you.  But you often have trouble even putting the ball ANYWHERE on the green because there are too many damn trees getting in the way of anything with loft.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Sean_A

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2008, 03:49:13 AM »
Now we are getting somewhere.  Cheers Rich.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Brad Swanson

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2008, 08:33:21 AM »
Thanks for the pics, this course looks fascinating.

Do they need some sort of tree removal program at Lawsonia or is it just the angle of some of the pictures?

I might be mistaken, but it seems like the trees are a lot more ominous than they were in Ran's course review from a few years back?


Rob,
   Ron Forse removed a large number of trees on some holes a number of years ago, and some minor tree clearing in spots has continued since then.  Most notable of late is the thinning of the trees on the right side of the landing zone on #6.  I would not say that the course is in general need of tree removal, although the teeshot of #14 is really tight and could benefit from the removal of a few trees.  The par 3 10th green, the par 5 13 green and the par 3 14 hole are all in an isolated but thick stand of pine trees which is out of character with the rest of the course, but I still like the contrast that area of the course provides.  Otherwise the arboreal hazards are few and relatively far between.  With the ongoing reclaimation on green surface and the few tweaks that are done under the radar, I'd have to say that the Links Course at Lawsonia has gotten just about everything right.

Brad 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 08:38:19 AM by Brad Swanson »

Cliff Hamm

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2008, 10:33:54 AM »
Played Lawsonia for the first time (2 rounds) at the end of September and absolutely loved it.  Visually one of the most open courses I have played and did not notice trees with the exception of the two holes mentioned. Overall, Lawsonia does not suffer from tree invasion like so many other courses.

The lone tree on 13, a par 5, about 175 yards from the green I felt was totally out of place and my major architectural criticism. Clearly a new planting and I suspect replaced a tree that was there.  Simply not needed on a difficult hole. 

Phil McDade

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Re: Lawsonia: Why Haven't I Seen a Comprehensive Photo Tour?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2008, 11:05:00 AM »
I cannot wait to play here. Just looking at the pics, I could be very content playing this course forever. The amount of architectural creativity here is incredible! Pics courtesy of Brad from Golfwrx.com
































Sean (and others):

Hoping not to step on toes, but here's a brief rundown of Rich's pictures, in order, from top-to-bottom....

-- The long (230+) par 3 10th, Ron Forse's favorite par 3 here, slightly uphill, and a great visually deceptive hole -- that right bunker/mound looks like it's fronting the green, but there is a good 30 yards of fairway beyond it and green. I believe this is the largest green on the course, with a significant back-to-front slope.
-- The approach, from pretty far away, on the 1st, a dogleg right par 4. The tee shot looks ordinary, then you turn the corner and see this.
-- Unsure, on the front nine, maybe an odd angle shot of the 1st?
-- The approach shot on the par 4 3rd, a dogleg right hole. One of my favorite looks on the course, a mid/short-iron framed by a simple Wisconsin farmhouse.
-- Tee shot on #1, I believe.
-- Same shot as unsure, above.
-- The uphill, blind tee shot over gull-wing bunkers on the dogleg par 4 2nd; the fairway moves right.
-- The long approach shot into the short par 5 5th.
-- The tee shot on the downhill par 4 6th.
-- The approach shot on #6; this is a terrific photo, as it shows just how pushed up this green is. The fairway falls away sharply from the front of the green, something that's hard to pick up until the greensite rejects anything less than a well-struck shot.
-- The famed boxcar par 3 7th; I've argued in previous threads that this could be Langford's homage to a classic Short.
-- Tee shot on the short par 4 8th, maybe my favorite hole on the course. A great work of visual deception. Guess which direction is the proper aim for a tee shot (hint: it's not at the green, which can been seen just to the left of the dark trees overhanging on the right).
-- A well-placed tee shot on the 8th ends up here; one of the smallest greens on the course.
-- The cape-like tee shot on the long, uphill par 5 9th.
-- The approach shot on the 9th. The second shot for the bold player going at the green is likely blind; the two tall trees that form a sort-of goalpost is the aiming point, because in between them is the green.
-- The tee shot on the par 5 #11; the ravine before the fairway begins is quite deep.
-- Approach shot on #11.
-- #11 green.
-- Par 3 12th; not shown, but has one of the great greens on the course, with a huge internal swale.
-- Tee shot on the par 5 13th; the play is a draw over the mounds left of the fairway.
-- The long approach into 13; the ravine is quite deep (this hole parallels 11).
-- The short approach into 13; the pics don't do justice to the depth of the ravine.
-- Par 3 14th, the shortest and easiest of the par 3s here. A much different look than the rest of the course.
-- Par 4 15th; downhill tee shot to a fairway that climbs all the way to the green. The worst tree on the course, IMO, is the one fronting the fairway bunker here.
-- 15 green; note the uphill nature of the hole.
-- 16 tee shot (sort of; this is from in front of the tee box); somewhat blind between the mounds.
-- Approach into 16.
-- 17 tee shot; the photo flattens the height of the bunkers and mounds that stare at you from the tee.
-- 18 tee shot, a shortish par 5 finisher.
-- Approach to 18, from left rough, I believe. 18's green is one severely pushed-up green.


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