Re: Birkdale's weather - do UK golfers play in this type of weather generally?

[George Pazin]

The tourneys must obviously go on, but several observed that in the US, most wouldn't normally play in such tough conditions. What about your average golfer in the UK? If you head to the course in weather like that, is it empty? Busy? Same as always?

I don't remember too much of the infamous day at Pebble in 92, but was it as severe? It strikes me that most US Open courses would be almost unplayable in such winds, mostly just due to the green speeds and balls not sitting still.

[Tom Huckaby]

George - of course I can't answer for a UK player, but I can report this:  on SEVERAL instances in my UK/Ireland journeys, my friends and I played their courses basically alone, with the starters and all anyone else present thinking we were NUTS.

Of course what else were we going to do, sit and drink?

We'd do that anyway after the rounds....

But my experience was that the UK/Irish locals were quite sane.

TH

[Tom Birkert]

George,

Weather generally doesn't bother me. Our weather is pretty varied but the only thing that would normally cause the closure of one of my home courses is when the head greenkeeper decrees it so. I've witnessed frozen greens (and tennis ball bounces), torrential downpours, gale force winds etc. The weather knowledge also isn't as advanced here, and thunderstorms are rare, so hooters for lightning are very uncommon.

I'd happily play in the conditions at Birkdale, indeed one can argue it makes for a better experience on links courses. I'll play in rain, although good waterproofs are a must, I've played in snow etc.

To me being out on a golf course is better than being pretty much any other place.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Every round I've played on a biggish course this year has either been in 30mph winds or heavy downpours that last nine holes... or both...

Worse luck than usual maybe...

But Sunday afternoon's sunny windy weather at Birkdale looked pretty typical and also lots of fun...

On the other hand, I'd only go out in Thursday morning's weather for a round on a very special course with no raincheck available...

[Sean_A]

Ally is spot on.  Most UK golfers wouldn't go out in the Thursday weather unless it was a comp - its hard to bail on partners in this case.  The other three days was not a worry at all.  I can't think of anyone who wouldn't play in 20 mph winds - which is all that was on offer thios past week.  All the talk of 35 mph was gusts and so a bit exaggerated. 

Ciao

[Brent Hutto]

Sean,

The morning I played at Birkdale back in September I checked the weather monitors at Formby's dormie house before leaving to go play. It was showing the steady wind to be about 16mph WSW with occasional gusts swinging around to NW at 20-22mph for a few moments. That's pretty much what it had been the evening before and all morning until I left to drive up to Birkdale. We did have one horrendous downpour on the back nine for two holes with some very strong gusts but it only lasted 25 minutes or so. Otherwise it was mostly sunny and about 16C-ish.

Watching the Friday and Sunday rounds of the Open on TV I swear it was like deja vu. I kept telling my wife that they were way, way overselling the supposedly almost unplayable conditions. That course is totally playable in a 20mph+ wind although on Saturday it really did look like a lot windier than the day I remember being there. But the behavior of the shot, the occasional rocking of balls on the green (which to be fair were probably Stimping about 7.5-8 when I played) and just the general sound and look of the wind whipping around the course were just as I recalled. So I tend to agree that they may have been exaggerating the wind slightly for effect.

I watched one round of the Amateur Championship at Sandwich in '06 when the wind was really gusty. Not too much problems on the greens but my goodness you really don't want to be hitting off the back tees on that course in a 25mph wind. By comparison Birkdale is a pussycat.

[Andrew Mitchell]

But Sunday afternoon's sunny windy weather at Birkdale looked pretty typical and also lots of fun...

On the other hand, I'd only go out in Thursday morning's weather for a round on a very special course with no raincheck available...

I'd agree with Ally's comments.  You expect wind at a seaside course but a mixture of wind and rain does make it unpleasant.  Michael Whitaker & I played in similar weather to Thursday when we played at Lytham a couple of years ago.  We'd made the effort to get there and it would have been difficult to reschedule so we played.  Normally I wouldn't.

[Mark Chaplin]

At Deal competitions go ahead due to wind unless the ball is moving on the greens.

This Easter Saturday was curtailed due to snow and Sunday due to 50-55mps gusts which caused the ball to move.

During Deal week August 2007 the wind blew in the mid week events. On day one of the Invicta 70 was best gross and 66 best nett. The following day 82 was best gross and 79 best nett. 12 and 13 strokes respectively difference over 24 hours.

It would be seriously bad form to withdraw from a competition due to wind and rain.

[tlavin]

Every round I've played on a biggish course this year has either been in 30mph winds or heavy downpours that last nine holes... or both...

Worse luck than usual maybe...

But Sunday afternoon's sunny windy weather at Birkdale looked pretty typical and also lots of fun...

On the other hand, I'd only go out in Thursday morning's weather for a round on a very special course with no raincheck available...

I suppose one could get used to anything, including inclement weather, but I think I'd give up the game if I had to play in weather like the Sunday round on a regular basis.  If that's "typical" and "fun" for golf in the U.K., I think I'd gravitate toward an indoor sport, like pint swallowing.

[Steve Kline]

Sunday's weather is it what I hope for when I go the UK when I play. Playing Crail without a steady gale would be a huge let down. In fact, here at home I relish the days when the wind is blowing hard at my home course. It's more fun to create shots than hit the same standard ones over and over. The only way wind alone would keep me off the course is if the ball would never sit still on the green.

[Doug Wright]

George,

In my fairly limited experience playing in the UK, this is very much what golf is like there. The wind and other elements are part of the charm of playing there--that's true of Bandon too. It's different from the "typical" US golfing experience in so many ways, and weather is just part of it.

[Rich Goodale]

In my opinion, George, no.

It seemed that they were playing in a minimum of a 2 club wind, with 3-5 club winds closer to the average for the four days.  In the two areas of the UK where I have 20+ years of experience (Firth of Forth and Dornoch Firth), one-club winds are average and it is rare to have as much as a 3-club wind.

Rich

PS--as Sean says, nobody but mad dogs and Englishmen goes out voluntarily in weather such as we saw last week.  However, if a competition is involved, that is entirely a different matter.

rfg

[Doug Wright]

PS--as Sean says, nobody but mad dogs and Englishmen goes out voluntarily in weather such as we saw last week. 
rfg

Rihc,

We visitors to your fair shores, who have no choice but to play in the foulest of weather, are not Englishmen so we must be mad dogs. [Emoticon delted in deference to Dan Kelly]

Thinking back to my last trip to Scotland, a 2 club wind was very typical, and our day at Murcar/Royal Aberdeen was 3-5.

[Andrew Summerell]

I’ve played in all conditions in the UK & have often been surprised how many people were on the course on some of the worst days.

The best I saw was actually at NSW golf club in Sydney. It’s generally quite windy there, but on a Saturday comp one extremely windy day the winning score for C grade (handicaps 19 & over) was 17 points. 19 shots worse than their handicap.

[Mike_Clayton]

Andrew,

In the same strength winds is NSW a more difficult course than Birkdale?

I would have thought it was because many of the wayward drives at Birkdale that finished in long grass would have finished in impenetrable bush.
It is much more exposed by being  up on the cliffs abouv the ocean and there are few dunes running alongside the holes as they do at Birkdale.

I guess the question is relevant because that is the great fear in taking the Australian Open to NSW next year.
In all the tournaments at NSW they have never really had a catastrophic week - and hardly even a day - or horrendous weather.

[Andrew Summerell]

Andrew,

In the same strength winds is NSW a more difficult course than Birkdale?

I would have thought it was because many of the wayward drives at Birkdale that finished in long grass would have finished in impenetrable bush.
It is much more exposed by being  up on the cliffs abouv the ocean and there are few dunes running alongside the holes as they do at Birkdale.

I guess the question is relevant because that is the great fear in taking the Australian Open to NSW next year.
In all the tournaments at NSW they have never really had a catastrophic week - and hardly even a day - or horrendous weather.

There would be more re-loads from the tee & unplayable lies.

My concern would be how the pros will handle the perceived unfairness of some of the situations they may find themselves in. At least at The Australian, as bland as it may be, they know exactly what they will encounter. Many pros seem to prefer it that way.

[Rich Goodale]

PS--as Sean says, nobody but mad dogs and Englishmen goes out voluntarily in weather such as we saw last week. 
rfg

Rihc,

We visitors to your fair shores, who have no choice but to play in the foulest of weather, are not Englishmen so we must be mad dogs. [Emoticon delted in deference to Dan Kelly]

Thinking back to my last trip to Scotland, a 2 club wind was very typical, and our day at Murcar/Royal Aberdeen was 3-5.

Doug

Are you related to Joe Blytxsflk (sic)?

Rich

[Gary Slatter]

As Richard said, the weather is usually a bit worse (better, if that's what you like).
This week however is the finest of the past 12 months, if the Open were on now Padraig would win with around 20 under. 
My wife is the proud owner of 7 rain suits, before moving here she had one and wouldn't play if she needed it. Now she loves the conditions.
The breeze at Troon fooled the players today, although Watson hit all 18 greens!

[Mark Bourgeois]

George

The people you should ask this question of are the Kiwis.  Four seasons in a day!

Mark

[Mark Smolens]

In my trip across the pond in '91 our last round was at Southerness.  We were scheduled to go off at 10:30 because of a member's event that morning.  Upon our arrival, there were only three cars in the lot, and four guys drinking coffee in the pro shop.  They knew who we were, and asked if we really were going to play.  We were the only ones on the course.

The rain was so hard that the cups were filled with water, and the wind was a steady 40, with gusts bending the flags almost upside down.  Putts hit past the hole often blew back toward the cup.  It hurt to walk into the wind.  Our third player had bailed, but my pro and I had the most fun of our entire trip.  340 yards into the wind was a three shot hole.  Don't know if I'd play in those conditions here, but on the last day of nine across the pond, you've got to tee it up.  We certainly didn't fly nine hours to lay up.

[Andrew Summerell]

This week however is the finest of the past 12 months, if the Open were on now Padraig would win with around 20 under. 

With the weather that fine, Pat Perez would have won.

[Michael Whitaker]

Brent Hutto and I played Royal Dornoch in major wind during our visit in June. The wind was blowing so hard that the club took down the flags flying beside the first tee because they were being torn away. At times it was all one could do to just remain on your feet, much less swing a golf club. There were no official measurements, but the wind had to be a consistent 30-35 with gusts of 40-50.

I enjoy playing in a brisk wind, but I would not want to go through what Brent and I experienced again. There was nothing fun about it. All one could do is just chop the ball around the course... it definitely was not golf. At the end of the day I felt I had wasted my time and money.

The day that Andrew and I experienced at Lytham, while difficult because of the rain, was nothing compared to the gale force winds Brent and I experienced at Dornoch. As a matter of fact, I remember Andrew having a particularly good score that day.

I'll never again play in wind as powerful as I experienced at Dornoch this year unless someone puts a gun to my head.

[Brent Hutto]

And playing it with half your shots being lefty pull-hooks does not make it any more fun.

[Jon Nolan]

Sunday, December 2nd, 2007 @ Bandon, OR. 

Half of Oregon flooded.  The resort was without power (including generator) for almost two days (eight hours plus on the generator).  Trees down all over 101 keeping us in and others out.  We were told the wind was 70mph sustained and gusting to 100mph.  Might be an exaggeration but not by much.  Only two groups finished on Pacific that day and we were the second.  Supposedly the group before us finished with scores of 98, 100 and 101.  Bullchit.  I shot at least 140 with a 17 or so index.  It was impossible. But it was a hell of a time. 

Props to the course.  It was completely playable.  The only standing water I recall was a bunch at the bottom of #8 just short of the green and there were 1-2 paces across "rivers" on #3 and #6 greens.  Other than that it was just wet; not soggy.  I, on the other hand, have never been so soaked in my life.  It honestly took about three hours to warm up that night.

The next day Bandon closed for the first time in its history.  There were about 40 guests stuck drinking in the lodge.  The first four beers were free.  Lunch was free.  The bar tab came in at 50% of what it should have been.  That was a good day too.

I've spent a lot of time in England and Ireland to include living there for ten years.  I've never seen weather that bad short of mountain blizzards and tornadoes.

[Steve Kline]

I played at Turnberry - the other course - when about an hour before we teed off the weather forecast included a small boat advisory and winds up to 60 mph. My dad didn't want to play but he did. I had an absolute blast. I think I shot about 4 or 5 over. My normal drive is 260-270 here (more in the UK with all the roll) and one drive I hit high on the bluff into the wind went only 180 yards - and it was low and hard.