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ChipOat

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Re: Hole by hole drawing of Merion: 1930 US Amateur
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2008, 09:06:37 PM »
Dan Herrmann and others,

Have we already done a thread on "what is a Redan?".  If not, it's a good idea because there will be a lot of input and a lot of disagreement.  For what it's worth, while #3 at Merion is definitely all-world and first class (especially from the new back tee box), it does not, IMO, display the playing characteristics of the consensus Redan holes that I have played - those being #4 at NGLA, #2 at Somerset Hills, #7 at Shinnecock and #11 at the now-NLE Links Golf Club on Long Island.  #8 at The Creek is also named Redan but I've never quite seen how that played like the others.  Actually, the green complex on the Par 4 #6 at The Creek is very much Redan-ish in terms of how the approach plays "best".

We did do a thread re: "what is a Cape hole?" a couple of years ago (or more?).  Gerge Bahto was the star of that one (for obvious reasons) and the essential point to have gleaned was that it's all about a large portion of the GREEN sticking out over a hazard and, despite the importance of the tee shot on McDonald's Cape at National, it has NOTHING to do with the angled fairway over a water hazard that challenges the drive.  At least that's Uncle George's take.

TEPaul

Re: Hole by hole drawing of Merion: 1930 US Amateur
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2008, 10:32:55 PM »
Chip:

You didn't mention it so maybe you've never seen it but I think Piping Rock's #3 plays as the second best redan I've ever seen. It's probably a little higher than any I've seen.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Hole by hole drawing of Merion: 1930 US Amateur
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2008, 11:57:31 PM »
DMoriarty,

That's true.

Initially, I contested the premise presented by you and Tom MacWood, but, as more and more information was brought forth, I modified my views.
I think that's reasonable.

Kirk Gill,

Thanks for showing TEPaul that he was wrong again.
I never called Lesley an idiot.

As more and more "titled" holes were presented for comparison I expanded the perameters by which I generally categorize a hole.

I don't like downhill redans with significant deviations in elevation and I'm not particularly fond of reverse redans.  Again, it's more a matter of general concept than identical architectural DNA.

I do feel that the closer the architectural DNA matches, the purer the hole.

TEPaul,

I agree, I think the 3rd at Piping Rock is one of the best redans to be found.


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