Shinnecock remodeling?

[Craig Disher]

I just heard today that Chip MacDonald's company has been given a contract to work on the bunkers and tees at Shinnecock Hills. No architect has been named yet to oversee the work. This sounded a little fuzzy to me. Unless the work is just routine maintenance, wouldn't the hiring of an architect be the first order of business? Anyone know what's going on there?

[TEPaul]

You've got to be kidding!? Let's hope it's just sanding and maybe drainage and not the bunker surrounds!

Those boys have been into way too many classic bunker surrounds already--it they keep going every famous championship classic course there is will have similar surrounds!

I'm gonna have to see if there's a William "Puffy" Flynn out there in eastern LI who might shed some light on this!

[Joel_Stewart]

I think Tom Doak is consulting architect?  

[TEPaul]

If it's some kind of bunker restoration work Shinnecock is looking for and they're using Doak & Co I could sure see Kye Goalby getting his hands dirty up there--he's been working with Doak at Lubbock and Stonewall2!

I once mentioned on here how good I think Goalby is and Doak said maybe but he has to prove himself. From the bunker work he's been doing at Stonewall2 he's already proven himself if anyone wants my opinion--which of course no one does--although so far that's never stopped me from giving it anyway!

[Kye Goalby (Guest)]

Tom,

My ears were burning and now I see why.  Thanks for the compliment, but it is not me doing the bunkers alone.  I may be doing  a majority of the trackhoe work, but all others are involved as well. Brian Schneider, Don Placek, Bruce Hepner as well as Kyle Franz and the edging/finishing crew (doing a great job) have all had involvement.   It is a team effort, with Doak giving us the locations which make the bunkers work - bunkers in stupid places that look good are still stupid bunkers.

Kye

[brad_miller]

Just another sign that SH continues to GET IT

[Patrick_Mucci]

CDisher,

I'm confused, was Kye talking about Shinnecock, Lubbock or Stonewall, or all of the above.

Who is Shinnecock using as the consulting architect ?

Is MacDonald & Co doing the work at Shinnecock ?

[Kye Goalby (Guest)]

The comments were about Stonewall.  I know nothing about Shinnecock.

[Freddy Mercury]

Another one bits the dust,
Another one bits the dust,
Yea, yeaaaaaaaa,

Another one bits the dust,
Another one bits the dust......

dump, dump, dump....dada dump de dump
dump, dump, dump....dada dump de dump

And another ones gone, and another ones gone,
Another one bits the dust,
Hey! there going to wreck it for you.
Another one bits the dust, heya heyaaaa!

dump, dump, dump....dada dump de dump

Call the Doctor!
Get him in!
He's in North Carolina!
Doing charity work for the children!

Another one bits the dust,
Another one bits the dust,
Another one bits the dust.......

[Paul Richards]

Freddy:

Just because you're gone doesn't mean you can't sing the
right lyrics!


(it's actually BITES (not bits!) the dust)

[TEPaul]

What's a little misspelling among friends?

Kye:

Ok, team effort--I should have mentioned those that you did! The bunkers are looking very interesting so far though. Who was that young kid who was chipping with a shovel on what he said was the hardest spot in Pennsylvania? Looked like some of the most sophisticated shovel work I've seen in many a year! Is that what you have to do in 109 degree heat if you want to become an architect someday?

[Tom Doak]

Tom P:  Either that, or play the Tour.  (Assuming you're not born into it.)

As for Shinnecock, sad to say I don't know what they're doing.  We did build the practice green there, and we've consulted there informally for a few years.  My last advice to them was that they might build a couple of back tees for the Open.  But if they've hired Chip Macdonald, it's news to me.

I'll try to find out something.

[Mike_Cirba]

How do you say...."Puffy" Flynn??

[Patrick_Mucci]

CDisher,

How reliable is your source ?

Why would a club hire a contractor without a consulting architect ?

[TEPaul]

Pat:

There's not a much more tenacious investigator than you are. Why don't you put in a call to the Shinnecock Green Chairman and ask him that question? That way you should have the FACTS!

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Don't you feel that the poster making the allegation/statement has the obligation to search out the facts, or are posters granted immunity from being accurate in their representations ?

[Craig Disher]

Pat,
My posting of what I heard was an attempt to search out the facts. My last comment showed that I wasn't certain that the story was true.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

Do I feel posters have an obligation to produce facts about questions they ask or do I feel they have immunity from being accurate in their representations?

That would be nice but I don't get too concerned about things like that. I take a lot of stuff I hear with a grain of salt--that's just the way it is--I guess!

[Patrick_Mucci]

CDisher,

Not that a club couldn't have a talented, knowledgeable member or two in the architectural/construction area, but it would seem exceedingly odd that such a high profile golf course would hire a contractor without first hiring an architect

If we could determine if that step has been taken, the rest of the info should fall into place.

[Craig Disher]

Pat,
Agree completely - the observation about hiring an architect was in my first post. MacDonald and co has an architect in residence who has done some design work. Whether he has been engaged by SH was part of the discussion I had with my friend. He thought it was possible.

[Mike_Cirba]

Craig,

I know nothing of what's going on at Shinnecock, but I find it highly doubtful that an club of such heritage would use an architect of a construction company who has a total of 1 (one) original design to his credit...a place called Upland Golf course on the eastern shore of Maryland.

Still, please see my Aronimink post for an example of how even a well-meaning, well-respected architect can sometimes be at the mercy of the abilities and methodologies of the construction crew....particularly this ubiquitous bunch!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

Here's where you and I disagree.

If the architect wants a bunker to look a certain way, and the construction crew builds it differently, If I'm the member heading up the project for the club, and if the contract the architect signed with the club gives him total architectual license and control, then the contractor is going to rebuild that bunker until they get what the club and the architect want.

I tend to think that after inspection of the first incorrectly built bunker, that it and all subsequent bunkers would be constructed properly.

This notion that the architect intended the bunkers to look one way, but they turned out differently due to the construction crew, doesn't pass the smell test.

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick;

That seems to be ideal, and also seems to be much more true of architectural firms that do the construction work themselves or have employees of the firm do it.  Especially those firms that LOVE the work so much that they are willing to do extensive and time-consuming handwork to get it right.

However desirable and idealistic that "do it until it's right" approach might be, I question why I see much less of it than one would wish.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

It's not ideal, it's simple, and practical.

And, it doesn't require the architect to camp out at the site.

Some, if not many contracts between the club and the architect call for a set number of visits within the context of the contract, with a proviso for additional visits for additional fees.

One of the purposes of the visits is for the architect to provide direction for the work to be done, and to approve or disapprove of the work in progress or completed to date.

If the architect feels that a particular feature has not been produced according to plan or direction, then the architect either accepts the alteration, or directs that it be modified to conform to his concept and directions, written or oral.

If the architect is working hand in glove with a representitive of the club, member or staff, then that decision is usually discussed with that party, and most likely that party will have discussions with others.

When a Member or Employee of the club is responsible for the supervision of the project, architectually, construction wise and financially, accepting the unauthorized alteration is not something routinely accepted, and there usually has to be strong valid reasons for the departure from the agreed upon work.

Supervision of the project is a major responsibility, and attention to detail usually insures that the club will get the intedended results.

A successful project usually doesn't happen by accident.
Competent work and supervision are key.