News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
"American Links Uninteresting"
« on: June 23, 2008, 10:31:20 AM »
That is the title of a 1903 article in the Philadelphia Inquirer where the British 'golf expert' J.A.T. Bramstron declares Myopia Hunt Club the best course in the States.  I find the whole article interesting and thought I would post it to Tom Paul's recent "golf expert" thread, but I don't want to hijack it.  Yes, it is a bit difficult to read as the quality of the reproduction is poor.

Just who are these architects that Bramston would be railing on?  And when did courses where this 'mathematical correctness' was not the rule of the day start to come onto the scene?  And which architects can be given credit for this?




@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

TEPaul

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 11:59:48 AM »
Joe:

A most important article find! Very good stuff in that article. Also being as early as 1903 it seems to shine some necessary light on Myopia and its most interesting member "amateur/sportsman" designer, Herbert Leeds.

Since Myopia is very little changed from when Leeds got comprehensively involved with it (around the turn of the century) it certainly can be said it was never "mathematical" or "scientifically" designed as J.A.T. Bramston claims most all American courses (and perhaps many English courses were as well) were.

It is also very interesting to see how Bramston evaluates Macdonald's Wheaton course in Chicago---this obviously before he got actively involved in creating NGLA or even in studying architecture abroad (1904 and 1906).

Perhaps there does need to be some reevaluating and reinterpreting of a few "legends" and some of the accepted "status quo" to do with some of them.

Perhaps, after all this time, it is Myopia's Herbert Leeds who should be considered the real "Father" of American golf course architecture, and if not, why not? It is not lost on me that even Macdonald himself praised Leed's course as one of the best in America before NGLA.  ;)

And perhaps the most interesting thing about Myopia is no one has ever claimed that its holes are copies of the best abroad----they are all pretty much originals to the site and land and natural features of Myopia even if it seems quite clear Leeds was abroad and perhaps a number of times before getting involved in the creation of Myopia.

I've felt for years that an added appreciation of the architectural significance of Myopia from an historical perspective was something who's time was inevitably going to come. I think it now has.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 12:04:02 PM by TEPaul »

Thomas MacWood

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 12:34:44 PM »

Just who are these architects that Bramston would be railing on?  And when did courses where this 'mathematical correctness' was not the rule of the day start to come onto the scene?  And which architects can be given credit for this?


Joe
The O&C team went to Essex County, Ekwanock, Garden City, Nassau, Baltusrol, Homewood, Chicago and Glenview. The NGLA would probably be the answer to your second question. I might be mistaken but I believe I read that the O&C deligation made a sidetrip to Southampton to visit the proposed site of the National. I don't know if the timing works or not, if Macdonald had found the site in August 1903.

TEPaul

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2008, 12:47:18 PM »
"I might be mistaken but I believe I read that the O&C deligation made a sidetrip to Southampton to visit the proposed site of the National. I don't know if the timing works or not, if Macdonald had found the site in August 1903."

He had not. He didn't find the site of NGLA or become interested in it until 1906, and it was purchased in 1907.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2008, 01:08:09 PM »
Joe,
GREAT FIND!

To me, the most interesting part was where the author complains that American courses just seem to place the green at whatever point yardage for that particular "par" hole requires.

I also found fascinating the note about requiring the player to play the same stroke over and over again.  I played a Ross course last week and that's just want I said when I was done - Every hole was a straightaway driver followed by a mid-to-short iron to the green.  I'm not knocking Ross - my favorite Ross course is Monroe, and there's a lot of variety there.

I wonder if this author's words could be applied today?   Folks like Doak, Hanse, Moran, etc are building very interesting and dynamic courses - but there's still a lot of cookie cutter blandness being produced.

Phil_the_Author

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2008, 01:10:05 PM »
Tillinghast wrote a number of articles in which he took to task the growing criticism from writers in the U.K.toward the American game, it's players and courses, a number of times using some quite biting satire and on one occasion even calling them racist!

One of my favorite's was when he wrote, “In most of the journals which are devoted to golf, we constantly find the most absurd references to the game and its play in this country. Our golf is altogether freakish and our players mad fanatics. When Mr. Henry Leach visited us last summer he returned
to England praising our courses, our golf and our men. His references to American golf in the British periodicals are as an oasis in the desert. We can only deplore the fact that other writers have not visited our country, that they might know whereof they speak…
      “Golf in America is a dignified, firmly established institution, and we are big enough to ignore many thoughtless, but nevertheless unkind, thrusts. No doubt they are intended to be humorous, and if they chance to amuse the British readers as much as they amuse us, although in different vein, they may be classed with such popular successes as ‘Wot Ho! She Bumps!’…
      “Joking aside, gentlemen, it does get under the skin a bit when you devote your space to an almost reverent analysis of the game of Daudi Chwa, the black monarch of Uganda, and his course at Kampala, and on the same page flippantly refer to ‘Goat Golf ’ as the popular form of game in America. We are rather inclined to regard golf as a game for gentlemen throughout the world, and far too great a game to be restricted by the bounds of nations. If Daudi Chwa plays golf, it proves that he is a good sort; but why discriminate because we happen to have white skins?”
 

TEPaul

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2008, 01:43:25 PM »
Phil:

If you don't mind, it's always most helpful if you'd include the dates of Tillinghast's articles. What he wrote about the British critics in the teens is probably a whole lot more appropriate than what was going on with American architecture when J.A.T. Bramston wrote the article in 1903 quoted above.

Thomas MacWood

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2008, 02:00:23 PM »
O&C team also spent a day out at Shinnecock. They played a mourning match and afternoon match against a team captained by Macdonald, and then were guests of the club that night for dinner.

The week prior to their visit the NY Times ran article on a proposed new club near Shinnecock, including the construction of a new golf course. The club was to be made of mostly New Yorkers, Judge Morgan O'Brien was one of the principals behind the project.

Perhaps CH Alison confused the site of this course with the site of the NGLA, he was the source of the story of visiting the NGLA site. Its also possible the sites were one and the same.

TEPaul

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2008, 06:14:39 PM »
Since Macdonald came to New York in 1900 he may've had his eye on land around the Eastern end of Long Island for quite some time. He said he did make an offer on land that was part of the large Shinnecock tract but his offer wasn't accepted. That tract of land the way he described it sounds to me like it was to the west of the Shinnecock course (around the canal). The land that NGLA is on (Sebonac Neck) is just north of the Shinnecock course and he seems to say he didn't consider that until 1906.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2008, 06:25:03 PM »
Tom & Tom:

Someone out on the East End told me when we were building Sebonack that there was another site Mr. Macdonald wanted to buy, prior to National.  I don't know exactly where it is but they pointed to a point of land you could see from the 18th hole at Sebonack.  Cow Neck? or something like that.  I guess there are houses there now.

Mike_Cirba

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2008, 06:41:33 PM »
It's interesting that the criticism of the "mathematical" style of design and the formation of hole lengths at "ideal" lengths could have still applied to Macdonald a decade later.

Thomas MacWood

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2008, 10:49:24 PM »
TD
I think you might be on to something. The site of the 1903 course was said to be in the shadow of Shinnecock Light. It was associated with an existing Yacht club, and near the site of that club.

TEPaul

Re: "American Links Uninteresting"
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2008, 07:11:40 AM »
TomD:

Macdonald mentioned that the 120 acres that was part of the 2,000 acre Shinnecock property he made an offer on which wasn't accepted was near the canal. I think that's to the west of Shinnecock probably around that yacht basin. I think there's a canal there that you cross over when you're on Rte 27 to the west of Shinnecock G.C.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back