Chambers Bay the 1st Major with Fescue Green?

[Richard Choi]

I was just browsing the Superintendent's Report on Chambers Bay site and saw this gem:

"Putting greens – The USGA’s Mike Davis told us that Chambers Bay will host the first modern major championships to be played on pure fescue greens as far as he knew anywhere in the world. Chambers Bay offers an authentic links golf experience on the shores of beautiful Puget Sound."

Is this true? Does seem correct. Doesn't British Open rota courses have fescue greens?

[Sean Leary]

It will be interesting to see if they can keep the greens from turning poa, especially since Bandon and Pacific Dunes couldn't do it in the NW..

At Aldarra, we tried to fight in the fairways and round and lost. Greens we are still winning, but at significant expense...

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Sean, would Poa be a better choice considering the severity of the Chambers greens? or would it render the golf course defenseless?

[Tom_Doak]

Chambers Bay is unlikely to have "pure" fescue greens by the time the Open is there.  In truth, fescue is seldom "pure" at all after a while, it's a mixture with a bit of Poa annua and a bit of bentgrass usually.

Muirfield's greens are still mostly fescue.  The Old Course has a fair amount of fescue, too.  Some other Open rota courses are nearly all poa and bentgrass now.

[Sean Leary]

Sean, would Poa be a better choice considering the severity of the Chambers greens? or would it render the golf course defenseless?

I really don't know, Cos.  Obviously half poa/half fescue can be a problem in the nw if its wet. but those greens are so severe they are going to have to keep them at a reasonable speed.

[Ian Larson]

With a fresh pallet like Chambers has its always possible to keep the poa out. It all comes down to how aggressive the program is to keep it out and being diligent about it. Ive mentioned it before in other threads but the Aussies have a program developed by Mark Logan that is excellent for keeping poa out and even eradicating it.

[Scott Stambaugh]

Interested to know if Chambers has the time and resources to keep the poa out like their neighbors to the North.  Highly unlikely.

-A poa/fescue mix is what players will see in 2015.  Remember, the Open is still 7 years away.  For those of you who play Bandon Dunes annually (especially the oldest course) the quality of their greens continues to get better and better every year.  Their greens are loaded with poa that seems to have adapted well to their leaned-out greens management program.  I last played there in October and BD's greens were incredible.  I'm sure the folks at Chambers are well aware of this.

Ian- Interested to hear what you know about Logan's program on fescue.  I know his program is used by many who manage bentgrass, just haven't heard of anyone on his program who manages fescue.

Scott

[Cory Brown]

The greens at Bandon are still dominated by fescues, even though some Poa is creeping in.  I think the winds at Bandon help keep the surface dry even with the large amount of rainfall.  Chambers doesn't have nearly as much wind so they will probably find it to be even more of a challenge.

[Mike Erdmann]

Ive mentioned it before in other threads but the Aussies have a program developed by Mark Logan that is excellent for keeping poa out and even eradicating it.

Great to hear that someone's developed an effective poa eradication program, but I'd be curious if such a program would work in a place like Chambers Bay or Bandon with the perpetually cool and damp climate of the Pacific NW.

[Jim Nugent]

Can someone explain the differences between the various strains of grass, in how they play for the golfer on putting greens?  A few words on their maintenance/cost benefits would be interesting too. 

I guess I'm kind of looking for a short primer on grass types, as I know next to nothing about them.   

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Can someone explain the differences between the various strains of grass, in how they play for the golfer on putting greens?  A few words on their maintenance/cost benefits would be interesting too. 

I guess I'm kind of looking for a short primer on grass types, as I know next to nothing about them.   

Jim, Im not a professional but I stayed at a Holiday..........

What I will say is Poa is a non-homogenous group of plants that is invasive and pervasive, particularly as Mike said in the Pac NW.  Listed as a noxious weed by the State of Washington, the cool and damp conditions in the NW are perfect for Poa.  It creates a softer surface and requires aggressive verticutting to remain firm.  The various strains create an issue f bumpiness because strains grow at different rates during the day.  Seed heads are a problem in the spring through the end of June.  It also tends to be prone to disease.

With those problems, growth regulators, aggressive verticutting, grooming and wetting agents can create a tremendous putting surface in the right climate, like the Pac NW.  Poa has no real grain, it can be cut very low and since it is so aggressive it is tough to kill in this area. 

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Jim:

The best way to understand the variation of turf species is to punch the name of each into an Internet search. There is some very good information out there that is understandable by people who do not work in the profession.

One of the misnomers of Poa annua (annual bluegrass) is that it can be eliminated. It is found in almost every section of the country and has adapted itself to thrive in those climates. Superintendents don't like it because A) is has seed heads that cause bumpy conditions B) grows at a different pace than bentgrass, causing bumping conditions C) is susceptible to some vicious diseases that do not affect bentgrass.

Most courses in areas of the country considered to have a cool climate will have greens that are over 75 percent Poa. Chambers Bay will be 90 percent Poa, within five years, unless their is a constant, aggressive regiment to make sure that does not  happen.

I hope this helps but I would still go online to get a better understanding

Anthony

[Eric Johnson]

Most courses in areas of the country considered to have a cool climate will have greens that are over 75 percent bent. Chambers Bay will be 90 percent bent, within five years, unless their is a constant, aggressive regiment to make sure that does not  happen.

Anthony

Anthony,

You may want to review-edit the quoted paragraph for clarity. 




Hint: bent= Poa annua?

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Eric,

Thanks for that catch. I think it's fixed now.

Anthony