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Tommy_Naccarato

Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea, NV.
« on: July 22, 2002, 02:54:31 AM »


I have seen Golf Architecture Hell, and it isn't pretty. I would rather have ALL of my teeth removed WITHOUT novacaine then play here again.

Call this Schmidt & Curley's version of honoring Ted Robinson's 2,968 golf courses in the Coachella Valley. I could only wish this place on my worst enemy.

Lots of great containment going on here. Gib will say that it is perfect for the shmoes who want to fork over the $300.00 to play it. I'm sorry to say that they deserve everything that they will get if they do.

And taking a line from Forrest Gump--and thats all I have to say about that......

Repetition so bold that it hits you square in the heuvos....


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:07 PM by -1 »

moggster

Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2002, 03:29:10 AM »
Has that plane been cut & paste into the first pic. Looks like a kind of steep takeoff!!! Air China?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

johnk

Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2002, 03:30:05 AM »

That first picture is one of the greatest golf
photos ever - at least journalistically.

I didn't know you were allowed
to use electronic devices in that close
proximity to airplanes...

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Gib_Papazian

Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2002, 04:36:27 AM »
Truth be told, if Adam had timed his patented "Clayman Power-Cut" at the right moment, he would have dinged the fusilage of that plane. We discovered that 727's take off a bit lower than most other aircraft.

However, there was nothing else to do with that property, unless you wanted to see a 9/11 episode every day into the side of highrise casino.

That said, this golf course is not that awful and serves its purpose exactly as intended. It is close to the strip, user friendly, and has the requisite Las Vegas gimmic - in this case mounds of crushed granite and scraggly plants at the perimeter of the playing areas mocked up to look like an outtake from South Pacific.

It does not beat up golfers, none of whom come to Sin City for an education in the finer points of strategic design. It also gets everyone around the golf course in a short enough time to get back and lose more money.

Tommy, how the heck can you be so OFFENDED by this silly golf course and then sit there with me in the middle of the night and watch an unimaginably cheesy pirate show in front of our hotel?

Everything in Las Vegas has a motif because there is nothing indigenous to the land but rattle snakes, sand and cactus. Whaddddya expect when we went out there?

Put your dogma aside for a moment laddie, nobody is pretending that ridiculous thing ought to be taken seriously. I'll be Schmidt and Curley laughed like hell through the entire construction project, but Bali Hai is a perfect reflection of Las Vegas.

The actual golf course is not as hideous as you make it out to be, and if you subtract the airplanes and ignore the set design, I have played at least 100 courses worse than this. The putting surfaces are pretty decent, the bunkering makes sense and the containment mounding is intended to keep the same idiots moving whose bunkers I raked on nearly every hole.

Now, I agree that for $325 they can pound their crushed marbel where the moon don't shine, but is that any worse than the egregious fees at places like Pelican Hill? Yeah, the surrounds are better, but The Strip is the place to be for millions of people and you are five minutes away at Bali Hai.

How about the clubhouse? Don't tell me you were uncomfortable in those comfy chairs with the big screen TV right in front of us.

Bali Hai is not about golf! It is about mindless entertainment -like an episode of Baywatch. Get over it. We played, we had fun and personally I got a kick out of the wierdness of it all. After Desert Pines, nothing looks THAT strange or contrived anymore.          
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:07 PM by -1 »

jg7236

Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2002, 04:41:20 AM »
Thats the truth folks, the planes come damn close to you, hell at one point on the course you can almost hit the planes as they take off, or you feel as if you can.  No that first picture was not pasted on their, it is the truth with over a thousand words to match, and I am not talking about Tommy, he probably has over two thousand words or more to go along with the picture.  Should the golfers be put through routine airport security surveilance before they play, since they are so close to the planes?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:07 PM by -1 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2002, 11:33:45 AM »
I have never seen that picture in their marketing brochures.  ;)

It is amazing when people talk about prices at Pebble being high, yet the traffic Vegas layouts receive.

Did you guys make it to any other courses?

Ben
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2002, 11:45:45 AM »
The prices and lack of high quality courses for justifying the high prices (I'm not paying $500 plus hotel room to play Shadow Creek) are the reason I've been to Las Vegas 5 times and never played a course in the area.  For me to travel on vacation somewhere and not play golf is virtually unheard of.  I don't gamble much either.

I've gone outside the area to play a couple times, but that's it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2002, 12:16:39 PM »
Ben- Yes, We went to play Shadow Creek and was treated ::) to Bali as an apperitief ;D

See 'Lost Wages' for a small insight into our trip.

Needless to say. $500 for Shadow is steal compared to $325 for this tribute to Ted Robinson. What is amazing is that while there is probably plenty of comp play at Bali, it isn't the corporate goofs filling the tee sheet. It's Schmoes with cigars and cell phones. They also have some very sexy women working there. One was a caddie and I couldn't help but think how distracted I would've been if we had had her.

And Gib- I was uncomfortable in that soft leather couch. But your response to the waitress was worth the discomfort. :D

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2002, 07:44:09 PM »
Opps I failed to mention the mango scented misters. No lie.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2002, 08:14:39 PM »
So if they had caddies, does that mean Bali Hai was reasonably walkable?

Scott -

You've been to Vegas 5 times, don't like to gamble & haven't played golf out there? What the heck do you do? :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

A_Clay_Man

Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2002, 10:13:25 PM »
George- While they did have caddies, and the course is very walkable, everyone was on carts. Mostly due to the heat and the threat of lightening, that day.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2002, 10:19:46 PM »
Looks like a course that would have sent Hunter Thompson and his attorney Raoul Duke over the edge in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas." If the drugs hadn't kicked in before that plane flew by, they certainly must have immediately afterward...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2002, 12:08:26 AM »
George,

The last 3 years, Vegas was an annual family get-together for my wife.  Some gamble, some don't.  I do for one night until/if I lose $20 playing quarter video poker.  Played golf each of the last two years away from Vegas.  Last year was Wolf Creek, with which we've discussed in the past.  First two times were seeing Vegas for the first time trips.  Each time we'd go, there was 2-3 new mega resorts to see.  Seen a couple of shows, ate good food.  If we go again next year, I'll take a side trip and see Rustic Canyon and Barona Creek.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2002, 02:39:53 AM »
There are enough tracks that Vegas is not the wasteland many make it out to be.

Primm has two solid Fazio tracks, some of his better work.

South Shore is very good Nicklaus, with different terrain.

Dye's work at Snowshoe Mountain is some of the most understated of his recent work, which surprised me given some of his other desert creations.  

There are plenty of bad courses and the costs are high, but lodging is also cheap compared to other resort destinations.  

Sounds like a trip that was great, Shadow Creek and Bali Hai aside.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

DMoriarty

Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2002, 03:09:26 AM »
I find it interesting that Tommy finds this course so awful.  I think in the past he has had somewhat positive things to say about a few Curley and Schmidt layouts (Goose Creek and I can't remember the other.)  

Tommy, what went wrong here?  Too little land?  Unreasonable demands by the developer?  Just your typical Las Vegas overkill?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2002, 06:17:54 AM »
I hope people reading this don't hold anything against Schmidt and Curley - from what I've seen (Landmark) they are terrific architects.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2002, 11:09:07 AM »
Ben,

I'm just not spending $150-$175 for "decent" layouts.  Dragon Ridge holds some interest to me, though my first choice would be (not counting SC, of course, and I suppose Cascata, just to see it) Southern Highlands, if I could get on.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2002, 11:25:20 AM »
For what it's worth, I hated Dragon Ridge. You absolutely cannot drive off the fairway there - the "rough" is simply hundreds of thousands of scattered chunks of boulders strewn about the desert floor, many with signs warning of rattlesnakes. When you're as wild of the tee as me, the course is pretty much unplayable, at least from an enjoyment standpoint. I found 2 holes to be fairly interesting - I think they were 10 & 18. Both featured alternate fairways where the choice wasn't as black & white as most alternate fairway holes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

A_Clay_Man

Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2002, 12:40:30 PM »
An interesting story about the Primm courses, that we learned from our trip to Shadow, was that Fazio agreed to never build anything similar to Shadow in Nevada. The primm course is just across the border in Ca. So while keeping to the letter of the agreement IMHO he supposedly violated the spirit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2002, 02:28:32 PM »
I played the Primm Desert Course while out there, too - Lake was being overseeded & my friends, who were treating since it was my bachelor party, didn't want to play it.

Desert Course was moderately interesting, infinitely more playable than Dragon Ridge the day before. I really liked 9 & 10 & thought 12-15 was a pretty good stretch, too.

Someday I'll post my photos from Wolf Creek so that you guys can see what golf courses really should look like, at least according to that guy that makes the wacky impossible golf holes calendar...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bali Hate Intl. Airport-Las Vegas By the Sea,
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2002, 04:36:00 PM »
Matt Cohn,

I like many Schmidt/Curley designs (Oak Valley, Goose Creek, Palms, Shadow Ridge...) and am not too crazy about others (Oak Quarry, Talega, Oak Harbor) but why shouldn't anyone hold it against Schmidt/Curley if they didn't like Bali Hai? Regardless of the restrictions they had to work under they did design the course and they did cash the check.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.