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Matt_Cohn

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Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« on: April 18, 2008, 01:11:39 PM »
Almost every discussion about Augusta begins with the claim that "The course used to favor the bombers, but now..."

Wait a minute. Gary Player won 3 Masters, and he wasn't exactly the longest hitter of his generation. For some perspective, let's look at the 16 tournaments and their winners from 1999 back to 1984:

1999 - Jose Maria Olazabal (NOT a bomber)
1998 - Mark O'Meara (NOT a bomber)
1997 - Tiger Woods (who?)
1996 - Nick Faldo (NOT a bomber)
1995 - Ben Crenshaw (NOT a bomber)
1994 - Jose Maria Olazabal (NOT a bomber)
1993 - Bernhard Langer (NOT a bomber, Chip Beck runner-up)
1992 - Fred Couples (yes)
1991 - Ian Woosnam (yes)
1990 - Nick Faldo (NOT a bomber)
1989 - Nick Faldo (NOT a bomber, Scott Hoch runner up)
1988 - Sandy Lyle (yes, I think)
1987 - Larry Mize (NOT a bomber)
1986 - Jack Nicklaus (yes)
1985 - Bernhard Langer (NOT a bomber)
1984 - Ben Crenshaw (NOT a bomber)

Pick any year and you'll find a bunch of average or short-knockers in the Top 10. In 1992 there were Pavin, O'Meara, Sluman, and Mize. In 1997 when Tiger went stupid, Kite, Langer, Leonard, and Sluman finished in the Top 10.

How can anyone make the case that only long hitters used to dominate Augusta National? Is there really any difference between Immelman, Johnson, and the kind of guys who have always won the Masters - other than their lower OWGR's coming into the event?

John Shimp

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2008, 01:16:50 PM »
Matt,
Interesting data that is hard to argue with over that period.  In the last 8 or so years you may draw a different conclusion though with Tiger and Phil winning 5 of the last 8 and contending a lot.  You could also say they are a lot better than anyone else over that same time frame too though.

Phil Benedict

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2008, 01:20:46 PM »
Interesting data.  One thing that appears to have changed in recent years is that driving accuracy is more important; Trevor was first in fairways hit this year and Zach may have been first last year.  Guys like Crenshaw and Jose-Maria weren't know for precise driving.

JESII

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2008, 03:01:01 PM »
As much as the fairways have been narrowed (only based on the quantity and passion of posts here), why would they even count fairways hit in the old days? Did anyone ever go the entire tournament without missing one?

Phil McDade

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 03:11:26 PM »
Kinda like GIRs at TOC during the Open Championship; who can miss those greens?

What's always been fascinating to me about Augusta's roster of winners is the variety of types of players who have won it. I think length will always be an advantage there, as well as being what I might call a high-ball hitter (as opposed those with relatively low-ball flight). Having a great short game doesn't hurt -- Olazabal, Johnson, Tiger, Mickelson all had pretty premier games from 100 yards in.

I still think putting often makes the difference; not that you have to lead the tourney in putting, but I don't recall a Masters winner ever putting poorly when he won (as opposed to the US Open, where I think you can get by with mediocre putting and still win, because of the demands usually in that tourney on things like fairways and greens hit.)

« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 08:21:50 AM by Phil McDade »

Jesse Jones

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2008, 03:30:34 PM »
Matt,
Nice work.
But what the new ANGC prevents are the heroic efforts by the big hitters on the second nine  to catch those short knockers.
The knowledge that 30 was in play put even more pressure on those short hitters coming home. That to me gives more value to the wins by the Langer's ,Mize's and Olazabal's.

Phil Benedict

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2008, 03:58:02 PM »
For all the talk about shooting 30 on the back 9 on Sunday, I wonder how many winners shot something even close (32 or lower for example).  Player in '78, Jack in '86 and Lefty in '04.  Of course is was possible on the old ANGC and is deemed impossible now, despite Lefty on shooting 31 on the current setup, but it was pretty rare wasn't it?

Some guys act as if the Masters on the old Augusta was like a Springsteen concert with the Stones appearing as surprise guest.

Jason Topp

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2008, 04:14:08 PM »
Some guys act as if the Masters on the old Augusta was like a Springsteen concert with the Stones appearing as surprise guest.


Because it was.  Nearly every single tournament in the list below had an extremely exciting last day.  Off the top of my head I can describe a highlight from each one.  I'm not sure I can name a many hilights from the last few years other (appropriately) than Tiger breaking his club on a tree.


1999 - Jose Maria Olazabal (NOT a bomber) - drains an eagle putt on top of Norman on 13

1998 - Mark O'Meara (NOT a bomber) - birdie on final hole to edge out Love and Duval

1997 - Tiger Woods (who?) - new era

1996 - Nick Faldo (NOT a bomber) 67-78

1995 - Ben Crenshaw (NOT a bomber) - went low

1994 - Jose Maria Olazabal (NOT a bomber) - great battle with Lehman

1993 - Bernhard Langer (NOT a bomber, Chip Beck runner-up) - Beck lays up

1992 - Fred Couples (yes) - ball hangs on on 12

1991 - Ian Woosnam (yes)

1990 - Nick Faldo (NOT a bomber) - playoff with Floyd

1989 - Nick Faldo (NOT a bomber, Scott Hoch runner up) Hoch misses 3 footer

1988 - Sandy Lyle (yes, I think) - birdie from bunker on 18

1987 - Larry Mize (NOT a bomber) - chip in

1986 - Jack Nicklaus (yes) - best event I've ever seen

Jesse Jones

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 05:18:43 PM »
Woods '97 win was historical, but it lacked suspense. 

Jason Topp

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 05:27:53 PM »
Woods '97 win was historical, but it lacked suspense. 


True - but that may have been the only one in that time period.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 05:33:40 PM »
Interesting that longer hitters have won since 1999 except these last two.  VJ, Tiger, Phil....

I think what your list has in common, as much as shorter driving with a couple of exceptions, is great short games plus the ability to work the ball.  Those who can hit a hard draw at will can be as long as the bombers who are straight hitters, they use the slopes to great advantage at so many of those holes.

And the ability to get up and down at Augusta has led to so many victories.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 05:43:28 PM »
Categorizing Immelman as a short or even medium hitter is really not very accurate.

This year he is ahead of the likes of Vijay, Cabrera, Villegas, and Woods in Driving distance.

It looks like Zach Johnson is the only exception to the long bomber theory from the last 7-8 years.

Additionally he is in the top 10 for Total driving at the moment.

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2008, 10:01:28 PM »
Interesting that longer hitters have won since 1999 except these last two.  VJ, Tiger, Phil....

...Weir?

So long hitters are 62.5% in the last 8 years? Not exactly "dominant" considering they've got the greatest player ever on their side!

BVince

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2008, 11:43:49 PM »
Categorizing Immelman as a short or even medium hitter is really not very accurate.

This year he is ahead of the likes of Vijay, Cabrera, Villegas, and Woods in Driving distance.

It looks like Zach Johnson is the only exception to the long bomber theory from the last 7-8 years.

Additionally he is in the top 10 for Total driving at the moment.

Kalen, you are right about Immelman's distance.  According to pgatour.com, he is 39th in total driving distance with an average of 289.7.  Not only is Immelman a long hitter, his accuracy in this years Masters was simply "Masterful."  Pardon the pun.  Zach Johnson is 192nd, with an average distance of 267.9.  Playing to his strenghts helped him dawn the jacket.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 11:46:40 PM by Bryon Vincent »
If profanity had an influence on the flight of the ball, the game of golf would be played far better than it is. - Horace Hutchinson

Jeremy Rivando

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Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2008, 11:32:53 AM »
I personally don't recall too many conversations that addressed  how Augusta always used to favor bombers but clearly times have changed.

Matt's list proves that any player could win prior to 2000.  I think Jack had the only big advantage as his distance left a big gap between him and the rest of the field.  Otherwise it's still Augusta, you have a to do a lot of things right to win, namely make all your putts inside 10 feet.

As of 2000, a look at the results of the big 5 proves that the course now favors bombers.  They might not win but the fact that Woods, Singh, Mickelson, Els, and Goosen are in the top 5 so many times leads to the obvious conclusions.

The bombers no longer have to be on top of their games to contend at Augusta, everyone else does, Weir and Johnson for example played flawless golf.  For us here in Canada there were far too many 6 footers for Weir on Sunday, leaving us all nervously clinging to the edge of our seats, but as long as you make all of them you can win.

Patrick_Mucci_Jr

Re: Did Augusta ever really favor long hitters?
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2008, 05:26:14 PM »
Matt Cohn,

From the day it opened.

Every one of the players you listed is LONG.

Some, are just longer than others.