Redstone's course conditioning

[BVince]

Redstone Golf Club is getting raves from the PGA Tour players for its superb conditioning, inch and a half rough, and focus on preparing the players for the upcoming Masters Tournament.  I watched a little of it on TV today and it looks really nice to me as well.  Is it the closest conditions to ANGC or is it over hyped?  Will the winner this week be the most likely to challenge Tiger in the competition for the famed Green Jacket? 

Subtopic for the architects - If the PGA Tour approached you to design a course to prepare players for the Masters, what design considerations would you make given that it will be kept in similar playing conditions?  Given that mission, what would your ideas be to make the course unique so it stands out on its own?

[Lou_Duran]

Byron,

I haven't played the Rees Jones course where I think the tournament is being played on, but its sister's only similarity to ANGC is that it has 18 holes.  I didn't see a lot of topography on either course, and doubt that the shot values from the fairways and the putting requirements are particularly helpful to what they might encounter in GA.

The basis for your two questions appear to mutually exclusive (similar playing conditions and uniqueness).  Perhaps the Wachovia tournament in NC would have been better in terms of preparing players for the Masters.     

[Mike Nuzzo]

I have played the Rees course.
The greens have significantly more contour that what I've seen on his other courses.

When the schedule changed and placed Redstone just before the masters - they created more fall away close cut areas near the greens - mowed a good amount of rough.

That and Roger Goettsch is a super super.

[J_ Crisham]

Byron,

     I played the Redstone course last year, the Friday after the Houston Open concluded. The greens were in very good shape and the shot options were numerous around the greens . I found the routing to be somewhat goofy. I would rate the course a 5 or 6. This course would be an absulute pain to walk as a spectator. I remember a green to tee cart drive ,16 to 17? ,that was about a half mile. Fun course to play once but not anything special.

[Lou_Duran]

Mike,

Can you compare and contrast Redstone to Shadow Hawk?  Both seem to have similar terrain.  Are the greens more contoured on the former?

It seems like Rees Jones has a large presence in Houston.  To what/whom do attribute this to?

[Jason McNamara]

Lou,

Redstone Golf (the parent company) owns both the Redstone pair and the Shadow Hawk / Houstonian combo.

[Sam Morrow]

Lou,

Redstone Golf (the parent company) owns both the Redstone pair and the Shadow Hawk / Houstonian combo.

That combo had nothing on Old Orchard.

[Jason McNamara]

Shadow Hawk =/= Houstonian (far from it, imo), and besides, it's only a combo for business purposes.

Back to Redstone... has anyone seen thoughts from the players comparing the new toon-a-mint course to the older one (Hardy / Jacobsen)?  I thought the older one was enjoyable enough, but the new one looked so utterly unwalkable that I never got around to it.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Shadow Hawk =/= Houstonian (far from it, imo), and besides, it's only a combo for business purposes.

Back to Redstone... has anyone seen thoughts from the players comparing the new toon-a-mint course to the older one (Hardy / Jacobsen)?  I thought the older one was enjoyable enough, but the new one looked so utterly unwalkable that I never got around to it.

Jason,

I have yet to play the member course at Redstone, but everyone I have talked to liked it more than the current tournament course.  You are definitely right about it being unwalkable.  I wouldn't wish walking that course in the Houston summer upon anyone.

[Jason McNamara]

Kyle -

Yeah, I have walked a few rounds on the older course.  While it's got those brutally long par 4s (esp. the final trio), the thing that always got me was the shorter par 4s.  The one on the front, #4 I think, just writes "double" on my scorecard every time.  As for walkability, there's a couple streets to cross, but nothing too terrible.

Another good hole (for the pros) on the older course was #15, the long par 5 on the back.  When playing into a N breeze (not prevailing in April, but occasional), it was just about at the limit of two shots.  I think Daly hit an iron one time, and for Mickelson it was a baby 3W feathered in, but for most of them it was a full-blooded 3W to get home.   Huge green too, meaning dumping it in a greenside bunker was no guarantee of an easy 4.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I am struggling with this as well. totally different type of course, different grass, flat, very few shot values which over lap. Yes 18 hioles in Month of April.  But it sounds good.

[Casey Wade]

I have walked both courses in trying to qualify for the tournament through the Southern Texas PGA qualifier (not the open Monday qualifier).   

Both are brutally long walks.  I talked with Rory Sabbatini's caddy before it moved to the tournament course and the member's course walking was close to 8.5 miles!

Tournament course long walks:  #1 green to #2 tee, #9 green to #10 tee, #17 green to #18 tee.

Member's course long walks:  #2 to #3, #4 to #5, #8 to #9, #9 to #10, #10 to #11.

Besides both courses being 7500 yards, they do have similar long jaunts.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I have walked both courses in trying to qualify for the tournament through the Southern Texas PGA qualifier (not the open Monday qualifier).   

Both are brutally long walks.  I talked with Rory Sabbatini's caddy before it moved to the tournament course and the member's course walking was close to 8.5 miles!

Tournament course long walks:  #1 green to #2 tee, #9 green to #10 tee, #17 green to #18 tee.

Member's course long walks:  #2 to #3, #4 to #5, #8 to #9, #9 to #10, #10 to #11.

Besides both courses being 7500 yards, they do have similar long jaunts.

How many of those walks on the Tournament Course, if any, do they shuttle the players on?

[Casey Wade]

I have walked both courses in trying to qualify for the tournament through the Southern Texas PGA qualifier (not the open Monday qualifier).   

Both are brutally long walks.  I talked with Rory Sabbatini's caddy before it moved to the tournament course and the member's course walking was close to 8.5 miles!

Tournament course long walks:  #1 green to #2 tee, #9 green to #10 tee, #17 green to #18 tee.

Member's course long walks:  #2 to #3, #4 to #5, #8 to #9, #9 to #10, #10 to #11.

Besides both courses being 7500 yards, they do have similar long jaunts.

How many of those walks on the Tournament Course, if any, do they shuttle the players on?

All of them those spoiled brats!

The only year (2 years ago) I tried to qualify on the tournament course, they shuttled us from 1 to 2 but there was no one to do it from 17 to 18.  After a long day, and my 77 didn't qualify, that walk was brutal!  I felt bad for one of my playing partners because we couldn't find his tee shot right of the cart path and he had to walk back to the tee to re-tee after that walk!

[Steve Lang]

  It was a great day to play golf in houston..  but i don't wish anyone the Redstone experience, unless you're making money on the weekend.. or someone is paying your way..

like any pga venue, in one to two months, the pga affected conditioning will be history and it will revert to normal or slightly impacted..  as overseeded areas revert to bermuda... 

sheila didn't do the walking scorer thing this year so i didn't go out to redstone, but it was in great shape last year, so i have no doubt it was equal or better this year.. but let's no forget that the ol' TPC course got rave reviews on conditioning too..   

we last played it in the fall, and it was not something I'd pay full $135 price or $85 twilight rates for..   sorry, the brutal walk isn't the only thing, ..  it feels really big, bigger than Champions, but seems to lack in soul or intimacy.. and you're just out there in the open.. hitting driver to big fairways, approaches to mostly big flat greens with small hogsback dividers and some border plateaus, and native areas and some bunkering that to most folks can just swallow you up..

[Brad Klein]

By the way, Rees didn't design the course that way. They just try to tweak some set up issues to emulate some of the cuts and firmness. Everything else on the design side is completely dissimilar.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Lou,

What I found odd at Redstone was that many features would play harder for the resort golfer and not impact the tour pro - in several locations.
It could have been better the other way around.

Shadow Hawk was more intimate and easier walks - less wetlands.
Redstone greens have move movement.

Cheers