[Tom Yost]

Short notice I realize, but I have a tee time at 8:10AM and two spots available if anyone is interested in joining me and another internet aquaintence in town from Washington state for a round at the TPC Champions.

Please PM or email me tjy355 aht cox daht net as soon as possible as I have to cancel by Wednesday evening.

Tom

[Tony Petersen]

Yost -

I would love to join, but the Phoenix City Am is the next couple of weekends...

For anyone in town, it's a fun design with some interesting greens and a great walk in the park for $43

[Jason Topp]

Excuse the threadjack, but is there any interest in setting something up for May 4 (a Sunday)?  It looks like I have meetings early the following week in Phoenix.

[Tom Yost]

Just a quick report on the Champions course.  A friend and I played it this past Saturday morning.

The course retains the same basic routing as the old Desert course, but all of the holes have been reworked and from what I could tell, greensite re-locations have allowed stretching many of the holes to get the added length.   Many of the existing large trees have been retained giving the course a very mature look.   A pond has been added adjacent to the #9 green.   I wasn't too keen on the new #5, formerly a hole that was similar to #18 on the Stadium course, with a fairway that sweeps left around a desert waste area and invited a "bite off as much as you can chew" tee shot.  The new configuration reduces the options to two, with a fairway split that  requires either a safe bailout to the right leaving a long iron to the green, or take the shortcut requiring a very accurate placement to a narrow tongue of grass guarded by a bunker.  On the other hand, I found the new #15 to be an interesting "drivable" par 4.   

Although it didn't knock my socks off, the course was certainly an enjoyable play and in superb condition.  It remains a core layout that is great to walk and with a bargain rate compared to some of its Scottsdale neighbors. 

Tom

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

Using the Doak scale what number would you give to the Champions Course?

Using the same scale what numbers would you give to the top public courses you have played in the immediate vicinity.

Thanks for your assistance ...

p.s. If the course is charging $43 during high season that's an incredible steal !

[Tom Renli]

While the original routing has remained in tack, the course is very different.  17, a long par 4 as the Desert Course is now a par 5.  Course moved from a par 70 to par 71.  The biggest difference to me is the old Desert Course's fairways were lined with sage brush.  However, the majority of greens were large and the pins were largely always assessable.

The new Champion's course has a much wider, open feel to it as the sage brush has been removed.  However, a bunker is play on nearly every shot.  Some pins are impossible to get at due to the bunkering and small shelves on the greens.  The new Champion's course is 4 to 5 shots more difficult from the same yardage, 6,600, the old tips v the new members tees.  New tips add approx 300 yards.  I believe 15 of the 18 holes are now more difficult, with 3, 15 and 17 being the exception.  15 is a good hole, driveable par 4.

I have a mixed reaction to the new course, probably would be diffferent if I had not played the old numerous times.   I must be getting old and stuggle to admit it is difficult.  Much more exacting target golf now, very penal if you go at a pin and miss slightly in the wrong spot.  Glad to see the greens are better after the overseed issue in November.  Very much a great vaule and worth a play.  Cheers, Tom

[Tom Yost]

Tom:

Using the Doak scale what number would you give to the Champions Course?

Using the same scale what numbers would you give to the top public courses you have played in the immediate vicinity.

Thanks for your assistance ...

p.s. If the course is charging $43 during high season that's an incredible steal !

Matt,  keeping in mind my lack of experience with top level courses, I may not be the best person to offer a "Doak scale rating," but recognizing it as a method of communication, I'll give it a shot.     I offer my assessment based purely on the descriptions provided for the Doak Scale, without any knowledge of other courses or their ratings for comparison.   

The TPC Champions is certainly a 4+,  probably a solid 5 ("A good course to choose if you are in the vicinity and looking for a game, but don't spent another day away from home to see it.")

By comparison I would rate the better high end publics in the Phoenix area I've played as 6's (TSN, Raven@Verrado, SunRidge Canyon...), and a few that might be 7's (WeKoPa Saguaro, and Apache Stronghold).   I don't think I've ever played anything that would be considered an 8 or higher.  Papago might be a 7 once the restoration is done and the conditioning improved.

How's that?

Considering the high season greens fees,  the Champions course gets bumped up a notch on the "Value Scale."  I also liked that it is a walkable core layout without housing intrusion.  There is the minor annoyance of overhead air traffic arriving to the adjacent Scottsdale airport, but since I've been playing at Longbow (same issue - at the end of the Mesa Falcon Field runway) I've learned to tune it out.

I would concur with Renli's assessment - I also enjoyed the old layout so I have mixed feelings when something like that is replaced with another good but not particularly great course.   The Champions is definitely longer and more difficult and he's right about the bunkering - I can't think back to any shot that doesn't have a bunker to consider.

So as I said,  definitely worth a visit - and most certainly so in the winter high season with the walking rate of $43.


Tom

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