News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
After reading the thread on Architect’s postings I decided to take the risk and post some photos. The project is located on the coast in La Serrena, Chile about 500 kilometers north of the capital, Santiago. The majority of the design was done by Kelly Blake Moran but if he is not around and people like it, well then I take credit for it. To give you a little background, the course opened in 2001. We had a budget of 1.8 million dollars which we under spent by 300,000 dollars. Construction time was nine months and establishment another five. The course plays from the back tees around 7350 yards but almost every par four and par fives are doglegged and have an alternative, risk-reward or heroic alternative tee shot. By taking these routes the course shortens considerably to 6,900-7,000 range. The area receives about three inches of rain a year and has the best micro climate in Chile, ideal for golf and they average about 363 day of good golfing weather. Typical of Links courses the major defense of the course is the wind but is reasonable most of the time and in my opinion adds to the golfing experience. I am not much of a photographer but I am what I am! I will include pictures of hole number 12 in its entirety and add a couple of miscellaneous photos. Hope you enjoy!
Photo #1
The native property

Photo #2
 #14 Tee shot

Photo #3
At the start of the landing left side #14

Photo #4
Green setting #6

Photo #5
The heroic route from Blue tees #3, the greens sits in the direction of the second white pole, you shave off fifty sixty yards off this par 4- 429 yards by taking this heroic route. It all down hill from the landing and if you catch it with the wind the hole becomes drivable for the big boys!

Photo #6
 From the white tees hole # 12, par five, one of the few fairly straight holes. Split fairways produces alternatives for all players, the lower route is shorter but the fairway is tighter and water comes into play form the second landing area to the green.

Photo #7
A view to the green from the first landing area lower fairway

Photo #8
A view from the first landing area to the second on the elevated fairway

Photo #9
From the second landing area elevated fairway.

Matthew Hunt

  • Karma: +0/-0
14 looks so like #15 RCD! :o I live a mile from that hole and I needed a double take, the Mountains and the hills are just like the Mournes and are approched just the right angle....told you on the other thread you need RCD style bunkers ;)

Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Hi Randy,

What is their water source?  Any issues?

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
maybe fifty shallow wells that manifold and a limited amount from a creeks from the andes that is melt off. All wells are salty but if you skim off the top slowly and gradually, you can grow turf.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
The area receives about three inches of rain a year and has the best micro climate in Chile, ideal for golf and they average about 363 day of good golfing weather.

Wow.  I recall that the driest spot on earth is in Chile (no rain for how many years?).  A coastal golf course with three inches of rain a year?  Sounds like desrt golf with a sea breeze and ocean views!

I thought coastal courses in Adelaide did it tough with perhaps 12 inches of rain a year.  Good luck with those bunker edges Randy.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Randy,

Thanks for posting some interesting pictures from a country I would like to get to know better one of these days.  A few questions for you and Kelly:

To what do you attribute your ability to undercut the budget by such a significant amount on this course?

How many courses have you and Kelly built in Chile and Argentina now, and are they concentrated in a particular region of each country? 

With only 3 inches of rain per year, why does this particular region have the best micro climate in Chile?


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've been looking alot lately at Chile from Google and  Live Search Maps.  It looks very appealing.  There is a neat looking course about 6 miles south of Concepcion that looks pretty good, sitting just above the coastal highway.  That area looks very Monterey-like.  It looks like they get good rain there.

The color of the mountains and salt flats and mineral areas are spectacular on the aerials.

Thanks for your postings Randy.  Wow, skimming off the brine in the ol irrigation jar!  Maybe Paspalum is an interesting alternative for courses there in the future.

It seems obvious that water scarcity is a huge issue there.  Does it become a VERY 'political' problem requiring VERY select 'connections' to acquire the water resources for a golf course?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Randy,

Thanks for posting some interesting pictures from a country I would like to get to know better one of these days.  A few questions for you and Kelly:

To what do you attribute your ability to undercut the budget by such a significant amount on this course?

No outside contractors, no need for drainage of fairway, no materials needed in greens construction, local sand met USGA spec and had sufficient organic matter also but we did put in green draiange and a transition layer of fine gravel. No trucks of any form for bulk earth moving, all was done with two bulldozers, an american shaper and a local shaper in training, no cart paths. We designed the irrigation system and trained local labor on the installation(thats probably why I having isolated problems with bunker edges drying out!) :o. At the time a genral labor earned about three hundred dollars a month.

How many courses have you and Kelly built in Chile and Argentina now, and are they concentrated in a particular region of each country? 

La Serrena was the last we did together, I have been on my own since but if the right project came along with the right budget I would work with him again without hesitation, two heads are better then one! So, we did like four together in Chile and one in Uruguay. Three in Chile are on the coast, two right next to each other. In Argentina we did the Buenos Aires golf together but were both associated with Von Hagge, he directly and me indirectly.

With only 3 inches of rain per year, why does this particular region have the best micro climate in Chile?

Because summer temps are around 25 celcius and the nights cool down to 10. The winter are not so harsh, pretty much free of frost and 12 to 15 degrees celcius during the day. No extremes makes it the best micro climate in my opinion!

RJ,
Can you give me the googles coordinates on that golf course. the only eighteen hole course in the south is in concepcion and I did the second nine and shaped everything with a sand pro. Great people there! But its not on the ocean, so you have my curiosity now!
I think Paspalm would be the way to go. It was just getting attention at the time we started construction so I was a little afraid. Plus getting it into the country is a breaucratic nightmare and expensive. We got 419 about four years ago before that it was cool season or common.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 08:40:05 PM by Randy Thompson »

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0

With only 3 inches of rain per year, why does this particular region have the best micro climate in Chile?

Because summer temps are around 25 celcius and the nights cool down to 10. The winter are not so harsh, pretty much free of frost and 12 to 15 degrees celcius during the day. No extremes makes it the best micro climate in my opinion!


Randy

I will check the Canary islands (in the Atlantic, off Morocco) for the weather specs there.  I believe the summer days are similar, but the winter is a bit warmer than yours.  And the rainfall on the coast probably won't be much higher.  Might be an interesting comparison of unique, dry climates.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Mike Sweeney

To give you a little background, the course opened in 2001. We had a budget of 1.8 million dollars which we under spent by 300,000 dollars. Construction time was nine months and establishment another five.

Kelly,

I think it is pretty clear that you have no experience and you must have a bad attitude.  :-* What architect comes in under budget and ahead of schedule?  ???  >:(

How could you not account for under the table payments, the dirty secret in architecture?  :P

PS For those that may not understand the above, I am taking a shot at Joel from his other thread:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33510.0.html

This website loves to go on rants about the cost of golf ruining the game. Yet when we find good/very good/great architecture that comes in at affordable numbers and actually under budget, we allow some over pampered rater from Golf Digest to take a shot at a professional architect that would love to get:

A. The Perfect Site (Bandon)
B. The Big Budget on a close to Perfect Site (Sebonnack)

Doakey obviously works hard, probably had many lean years, and now deserves what he is getting.

PPS. Kelly is my friend, and I love 17 holes at Lederach and have informed him here and elsewhere to blow up the one hole. We can be constructive but let's stop driving the guys that make golf and this website interesting away from here.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 08:58:33 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Randy, I apologize for not getting in touch while we were in Santiago early February, we were overly booked and I recall you were going to be away.

At any rate, we did love Santiago, plus Valparaiso and Isla Negra.  We did two full day trips during our visit of three full days.  Loved the stray dogs in Valpo and Pablo Neruda's house on the Pacific in Isla.

Santiago is to Los Angeles as Buenos Aires is to Paris or New York.  We had a good time in Santiago because we covered a lot of ground with an old friend who lives in Providenzia.  Did a lot of walking, up to the ascenseur up to the big mountain top plaza, name?

Your course looks spectacular.  Not as much movement of the earth as Matthew's beloved Royal County Down, but nifty nonetheless.  Congrats!

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
That looks very interesting.
Can you post a routing plan?

What was your irrigated acreage?
What was your irrigation budget?

Great work.

Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks, Kelly.

I like hearing stories like that, even if the part of dating your niece is fictional.(Don't ask how I know)  :)

When we do a road trip, we read books aloud as well...but it's usually something more meaningful from authors such as Lewis Grizzard or Dave Barry or The Apostle Paul.....(Now, that guy was a cut up! I'll never forget the part where he rebukes the young church of Thessalonica.... ;D)

If you'd like, I can ghost write a book for you. "KBM: Stories from the Bush"

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0

I know this goes against the wishes of some on this board but one of the things I hate the most is recounting what we did on a course, the thought process, etc., because so much of those thoughts evaporate from my mind.  I do know when I go back to an old course of mine/ours I hold my breath because I feel there are some things I would do differently, and I am certain this would be true at Serena as well as anywhere else, but I am surprised sometimes by the things we did back then, there are some bold things we did I forget, and in fact may have lost touch with on subsequent projects. 

Randy and I designed it but as was the arrangement it was his after that since he was fully in charge of construction, so while he faithfully followed the design all credit for what ended up in the ground, the budget, the grand opening conditioning goes to him.  Budget-wise my only contribution was that we had to endure the 6 hour drive from Santiago to La Serena because the client would not pay airfare during that phase of the work.  And Randy drives like your grandmother, in fact back then he would try to date your grandmother, your mother, if they were lookers, and your niece, of course only if she were 18 or older, at the same time!  I believe we flew once.  But it also gave us quality time together, as I recall I brought a copy of Doak's, Anatomy of a Golf Course, and I read it out load the entire trip one time!
[/quote]

Kelly
We never stop evolving, so its impossible not to think back and want to do a few things different. If it were today, I would have left more and created more movement in the fairways and a few of the greens. But the Chilean market is such an uneducated golfer and there still not really ready for what we did, which is much more toned down then we would have liked to create. It was more of a marketing decision at the time. (I remeber Mike Young making a comment about Jack Nicklaus in Central America and the client saying, oh he is my favorite actor, I have heard that too many times down here also)
 Secondly since the dirty architect secrects are coming out, the client paid for two air fares, 250 each. I spent 100 in gas and tolls and pocketed the other 400!
 Third and most importantly, thank god I married a Chiliean wife that doesn´t read English. She married me thinking I was a virgin. What did you expect me to do, I was traveling 27 days a month, what kind of life is that! I didn´t want to hurt your feeling but I had read Tom´s book fourteen times and Bury me in a Pot bunker fifteen. My physchologist said I had to leave the books and start living and dating! Anyways, thanks for not mentioning the niece´s dog because I swear it was one date and we went to a movie and got a couple of hot dogs afterwards and nothing more! :P ;D

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mike, I beleive it is around one hundred and twenty five acres or a little less. We spent around half a million on supplies on the irrigation system plus another hundred on the pump station. I can´t remember how many heads but between 800 and 1200 maybe.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thank you Kelly -- I mean Karen -- and Randy.


Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks RJ, I had no idea the project was so close to the ocean, I would have guessed we were at least ten miles from the ocean and the project was north of Concepcion not south! Anyways that was my first nine holes on my own, like I stated earlier I did all the shaping with a sand Pro that had a blade on the front. My hands are still blistered! The first nine was done about seventy years ago and are the holes that run adjacent to the lake, like four holes going out and five coming back, the other nine are mine and were done like ten years ago. No digital cameras back then, so I have only two fotos. Need to get back down there and get some more photos. Here are the two that I have. 



Mike_Cirba

That looks pretty freaking good, fellas.   Thanks for sharing.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back