[ed_getka]

   I had the great pleasure of golfing at Kingston Heath with Rich Mcafee, Lloyd Cole, and David Kelly. It was very interesting to play the course knowing what a small parcel of land it is built on. Not once did I get a feeling of being hemmed in as I expected. It certainly doesn't have the expansive feeling of RM, but it never felt constricted. I remember reading that there were drawbacks to the course in some peoples opinion, but I thought the course was fantastic. A load of variety is found on this course. If I were to move to Melbourne the first thing I would do is get on the list to join KH.
    We played KH on a competition day so we didn't play the holes in order so I may have a little trouble making sense of the routing and its attributes/deficiencies that some people seem to make a point of.
     I would give the course a Doak 8, and with a few more plays could see that becoming a 9. There aren't any holes that jump out at you as being obviously brilliant, but nor are there any bad holes here that I can think of. Just a really solid course all the way through and one I would be happy to play the rest of my life.

[Matt_Cohn]

If I were to move to Melbourne the first thing I would do is get on the list to join KH.

So you preferred KH to RM? Or is there some other consideration?

[David_Elvins]

The Australian Women's Open is being played there this week.  Not sure what the television arrangements are.  I assume Australia only.

The women don't play a lot of events on courses this good. Will be interesting to watch.

[Tim_Weiman]

Ed,

I visited Kingston Heath a few years back during the Renaissance Cup trip and must say that I greatly enjoyed the course. Amongst other things it came across as the perfect course to walk for someone getting up there in years.

Tom Watson has described Ballybunion as a place those studying to become architects should get to know before starting their careers. I'd offer a similiar thought about Kingston Heath: do we really need great big properties to build something special?

[Mike_Clayton]

Ed.

The course looks great this week.It is playing at 6600 yards which some think is too long but the ball is running and the hole you know as 17 is playing as a par five.

The order of holes is changed for this week to enable a two-tee start and to get all the finishing holes - 14,15,16,17 and 18 - within walking distance of the clubhouse.By walking distance I mean the longest walk from the clubhouse to any one of the the last five holes is about 300 yards.
With the normal routing the finishing holes are much more spread out.
Probably the new finishing stretch would be a bit short for the men but they are pretty strong finishing holes for the women.

For those who know the course the order is:1,19 (the 19th hole built about five years ago behind the 1st) 12,13,14,15,16,17 and 18.
7,8,9,11,2,3,4,5 and 6.

[Jason Topp]

Ed.

The course looks great this week.It is playing at 6600 yards which some think is too long but the ball is running and the hole you know as 17 is playing as a par five.

The order of holes is changed for this week to enable a two-tee start and to get all the finishing holes - 14,15,16,17 and 18 - within walking distance of the clubhouse.By walking distance I mean the longest walk from the clubhouse to any one of the the last five holes is about 300 yards.
With the normal routing the finishing holes are much more spread out.
Probably the new finishing stretch would be a bit short for the men but they are pretty strong finishing holes for the women.

For those who know the course the order is:1,19 (the 19th hole built about five years ago behind the 1st) 12,13,14,15,16,17 and 18.
7,8,9,11,2,3,4,5 and 6.

19 looked great but it is hard for me to believe they took out 10.  I really liked that hole.  

[Matt_Cohn]

they took out 10?!

[ed_getka]

If I were to move to Melbourne the first thing I would do is get on the list to join KH.

So you preferred KH to RM? Or is there some other consideration?

Matt,
  The factor is the 15 year waiting list at RM versus a year or two at KH. I wouldn't say I preferred RM to KH, but I haven't seen the real RM yet given the soft greens we experienced. I think the green complexes of RM were more intricate overall, so I would prefer RM on that basis. However, I don't prefer RM enough to make it worth the wait.
   I'll run through the holes in the next day or two when I have time.
    I would have really liked to have seen the Presidents Cup there at KH. However, it will be cool to check out RM in competition now that I know what it looks like in person (except the East holes which I haven't seen yet).

[ed_getka]

Ed,

I visited Kingston Heath a few years back during the Renaissance Cup trip and must say that I greatly enjoyed the course. Amongst other things it came across as the perfect course to walk for someone getting up there in years.

Tom Watson has described Ballybunion as a place those studying to become architects should get to know before starting their careers. I'd offer a similiar thought about Kingston Heath: do we really need great big properties to build something special?

Tim,
    Given Merion and KH as examples I would say a huge parcel is certainly not an essential element. You are right about KH being a great course to walk in your advancing years. All of the Sandbelt courses I experienced on my trip would fit into that category.
    I really need to make a trip to Ireland and then England in the next 10 years before my game starts to decline, but I really just want to go back to Australia and New Zealand. I would certainly consider moving down there if my children weren't going to be half a world away.

[Tyler Kearns]

Ed,

I found Kingston Heath to be a real charming course, with an intimate (but not crowded) feel given the size of the land. The golf course probably receives too many points for the exceptional visual appeal of the bunkering, but it does add a psychological factor to the game, and quite frankly, there is nothing wrong with bunkers being visually stimulating. Certainly, many dislike the numerous blind shots, but I did not feel they detracted from the game. The only time I felt it was awkward was the long walk back, against the line of play, to the 16th tee. And yes, all three par-5's play in the same direction!

The course does break a few "rules", but what great course doesn't. To  me, Kingston Heath possesses an indefinable quality (sorry Mark Ferguson ) makes it very fun to play. Could the routing be better? Who knows, it is what it is, and that is a collection of 19 very good or exceptional golf holes.

No offense to Mike Clayton, who designed a wonderful hole that blends it very well with the rest of the course, but I too am surprised they are substituting the 10th for the 19th. I would imagine the rational is that the walk from 9 to 11 is shorter than that from 1 to 12.

TK

[Mark_F]

To me, Kingston Heath possesses an indefinable quality (sorry Mark Ferguson )
TK

Tyler,

You don't have to apologise to me for having a contrary opinion, especially when it is wrong.

KH is probably a course I will forever scratch my head over.  It has four excellent holes in 3,6,10 and 15, only a couple of ordinary ones in 2 and 4, with the rest of the course composed of fine holes that aren't anything special - aside from the bunkering and vegetation.

It has five short/medium par fours in 2,3,4,9 and 13 that ought to be able to give someone standing on the tee a wide choice between driver, 3-wood, hybrid or long iron to bring/discard various hazards into/from play, yet with the exception of perhaps 4, driver is never really an option for the better player on the other holes, is it?

I eagerly await Ed's write-up of the course, although I fear objectivity is going to be a problem.  

[Mike_Clayton]

Tyler.

None taken!!
It is a good hole but it is 80 years behind 10.
It will be interesting to see how much more atmosphere is created with the finishing holes so close to the clubhouse and so close to each other.It should make for great watching.

Mark,

I have to disagree that driver is never an option at 2,3 and 13.

Many good players hit driver at 13, at 2 you have to if its into the wind. I would have thought more players hit driver there than any other club.

At 3 driver is very risky but it is not a stupid shot because of the high probability of making three if you drive straight.

[Mark_F]

Many good players hit driver at 13.

At 3 driver is very risky but it is not a stupid shot because of the high probability of making three if you drive straight.

What percentage of the time did you take driver on those holes when it mattered, Mike?

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,

I hit 3 wood at 2 unless it was into the wind - but I never played a tournament off the new back tee.I would always hit driver now.
Never anything but an iron on 3 after I played with Gary Player and David Good in the 1979 Vic.Open.
They both hit driver and I followed because I was too dumb to do what I knew I should have. Made 6.

4 and 13 were always driver.
9 was a 2 iron shot but it gets wider as you go down.

[RichMacafee]

90% of top amateurs/pros hit driver on 13, not all with great success - it is a real sleeper of a hole. There is actually no correct strategy there, it completely depends on wind conditions and what clubs you are hitting/shaping well at the time. It's a very underated hole.

Frome my experience, only 5% of top amateurs/pros hit driver on 3 - but as Mike points out, it is a very good option if you are confident in your driver. When Peter Senior won the Australian Open at KH he hit driver on 3 every day and played the hole in -5 for the week. He hit his drive in the greenside bunker every day - holed one bunker shot and got up-and-down the other 3 days.

19 has been substituted for 10 purely to create 2 nines and get th e finish close to the clubhouse as Mike mentioned. It's a worthwhile experiment and it will be interesting to see how it goes. The 10th tee also creates a great viewing point for 8th tee, 9th green, 4th tee, 3rd green and even 11th tee - it is spectator friendly to have it out of play.

For what its' worth:

I hit driver on 13, 2-iron on 3, and hate the 10th ever being out of play - I love that hole

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