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Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riversdale Australia
« on: July 29, 2002, 10:14:55 PM »
Mark,

From what I can gather, the Riversdale Cup is among the most prestigious amateur tournaments in this country.  There is always a top class field, and the list of winners is most impressive.

I might be wrong, but most of Australia's top amateurs compete, and for a short period, the event was even televised on ABC!

Didn't TWP do the remodelling?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2002, 10:28:59 PM »
I havn't played there, but have attended the Riversdale Cup.  Can't remember any great holes...but there aren't too many shockers either.

The bunkering on 18 does have the TWP look to it.

Overall, its a solid course, where not too much stands out, good or bad.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:07 PM by -1 »

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2002, 10:34:02 PM »

18th hole
Courtesy www.riversdalegolf.com.au
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:07 PM by -1 »

Shane Gurnett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2002, 12:11:25 AM »
Have played at Riversdale many times.

Its a relatively short, undulating course with no real standout holes, but not many poor holes either. Boundary problems have changed some holes in recent years, and in one case (13th) the back tees are now out of use except for tournaments, due to problems with balls going over the fence.

I suspect many of the greens have been redone in the last 10 years, with some featuring quite steep front to back undulations. Riversdale seems fulfill its potential for providing good quality golf on a tight site, on very undulting land. Its not a great course by any stretch, but its an enjoyable place for a game. Conditioning has improved out of sight in the last 10 years.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mark_Huxford

Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2002, 12:42:19 AM »
Thanks Shane, Chris. There sure seems to be a consistent theme with Russell and small sites. What a pity he didn't get to design without such restrictions more often.

Mike Duffey, what do you know about his family and Mawallok?
Was he an only child? I have it written down somewhere that Mawallok was established after Squatter's Rights. Was any protest ever made against it or similar Vic properties?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

MikeClayton

Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2002, 02:59:36 PM »
Mark
The Riversdale Cup is probably the best amateur tournament in the country.It is over 100 years old and all of the best amateurs won it.
There are some old photos in the clubhouse and the origional bunkering was of sandbelt style and quality.
Both David Graham and Peter Thomson were assistant pros there -Thomson in the very early 50's and Graham in the 60's.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Duffy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2002, 06:41:48 PM »
Mark,

I played a few times in the Riversdale Cup during the 1960s and early 1970s.

I clearly remember one Easter there when the Cup was being contested, when the course was a veritable bog and preferred lies were in operation.

The course is immeasurably better now than it was in those years past, but due to its soil composition which is brown clay, it will never be rated one of Melbourne's top courses.

In those days some outstanding amateurs won the tournament including Tony Gresham, John Lindsay and Harry Berwick.

Also some notables who went on the successful professional careers including, if I recall correctly, Ian Stanley, Mike Cahill and Noel Radcliffe.

The professional there for over thirty years was George Naismith, who as Mike Clayton has pointed out, both Thomson and Graham both served their "time" under George's tutelage.

George was a fixture at Riversdale, as he commenced his duties there as the clubs' professional around 1929 and worked there until the early 1970s.

As far as I can recollect Russell was an only child, although I was told some years ago by a person who knew the Russell family, that there was a younger sister who died at a young age from TB, and another sister who married into a wealthy Western District family. I have not followed up that information so I cannot verify the accuracy thereof.

Mawallok, I seem to recollect, as being a substantial  property situated just off  the Western Highway between the city of Ballarat and the town of Ararat in the Beaufort district. The land in the area is very fertile, producing various grains and fat sheep and cattle.

The Russell Family had a private golf course on the property at Mawallok so I was told, which Alex had designed at the age of 16 or thereabouts. From all accounts it was a very good golf course, but later it fell into disuse and the land reverted to grazing pasture.

Nearly all of the land in that area of Victoria was grabbed by the "squatocracy" during the the period 1850-1880.

As Aboriginal Land Rights and subsequent claims have only come about over the past 30 years or so, I doubt that there would have been any claims against the Mawallok property, particularly during the years of occupancy of the Russell family.

Squatters rights were enshrined into law during the 1880s, whereby those squatters who could prove that they had existed on the land for the previous 25 years were permitted to "buy" the land off the State Government of Victoria for a "peppercorn" rate.

Those who could not produce proof of occupancy, were given the option of purchasing the land at a rate struck by the Government's Surveyor-General, a rate that was described by a columnist in "The Argus"  at the time as being exceedingly generous.

Immense wealth was generated in the Western District of Victoria with the passing of the Lands Act, and the Russell family were just one of the many beneficiaries of such largesse by the Victorian State Government.

However, it shouldn't have been too much of a surprise, as the mostly corrupt various state governments of Victoria during the latter part of 1800s and up to the 1940s, were stacked with members of the descendants of the original "squatocracy".

With an electoral gerrymander in place to ensure that their numbers could not be surpassed by the city electors, they enacted many pieces of legislation that grotesquely skewed the economic distribution in Victoria for the best part of 75 years.

When economic reality finally arrived in the 1960s, many of the families in the Western District found that living off the land was not as gracious and attactive as it was of yore with the result that many of the large properties were broken up and sold off.

Finally, may I add how much golf has improved over the past 35-40 years. When I played in Riversdale Cup, the club would issue invitations to all amateurs with a handicap of five or less. Many of the participatns in those days had "Hollywood" handicaps, for under the standard scratch system of the time, they were only required to register their 10 best scores of the previous 12 months.

Now one would need to have a handicap of 1 to ensure entry into what has rightly been described as  one of Australia's most prestigious amateur tournaments.







« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Harley Kruse

Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2002, 07:27:37 PM »

Mawallok is near a town called Beaufort. The property is owned by  Peter and Jocelyn Mitchell.

A few years back there was still a nine hole course on the property. I'm not sure if it was part of the original Russel course or not.

There is also a superb garden around the house designed by William Guilfoyle who is credited with Melbourne's Botanic Gardens
                                          
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mark_Huxford

Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2002, 12:19:59 AM »
Thanks Michael, Mike, Harley.
Michael, in Melbourne when you guys say "sandbelt style", is that always a reference to the involvement of Mick Morcom??

Mike D, do you know when or how Alex met Stanley Bruce?
Could it have perhaps been at Royal Melbourne Golf Club?

Though Alex was Stanley's junior in terms of age, their lives do seem quite similar. Yarra Yarra Hedley sent me a Golf Illustrated article by Dr. AM in which AM states Russell once told him he had his own name down as a Nationalist party candidate but would much prefer golf architect to politician. MacKenzie's response was to say only half jokingly that he had no doubt which field was the more likely to do good for the health and happiness of the community - that I found quite amusing :)


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Clayton

Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2002, 03:57:01 AM »
Mark
Morcom and son had a style very much their own and unique to Melbourne.They mainly worked in sand but the style and feel was transferable to the less friendly soils of Riversdale.
It was ,however, the only clay belt course where it was done well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Duffy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2002, 05:03:32 PM »
Mark, I wouldn't have a clue where Bruce and AR met. Royal Melbourne would be as good a guess as any.

Also the Melbourne Club, as both of them were members there as well. The Melbourne Club is not a sporting or golf club, but is an exclusive men-only business club, situated at 36 Collins Street, in the Melbourne CBD.

The Melbourne Club was - and still is- a favoured watering/residential stopover for visiting graziers from Victoria's Western District.

As you probably know Mark, AR was the principal private secretary to Stanley Bruce during his term as Prime Minister of the Commonwealth of Australia.

Bruce is remembered as being the only Prime Minister of Australia to lose his seat at an election, being defeated in the seat of Flinders, an electorate that in those days took in the whole of the Mornington Peninsula.

Bruce resided in a baronial mansion situated at the top of the Pinehill estate at Frankston. The mansion, over the decades, was used for several things including an aged care facility.

When I had a look at the place earlier this year, just before going to auction, is was indeed in a sad state of disrepair. The neighbours estimated that it needed around $500,000 spent on it to make it habitable.

I don't know what the outcome of the auction was, whether it sold or was passed in, as I was in Christchurch (NZ) at the time, however, I do know that the expected selling price was around the $1 million mark.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Greg Ramsay

Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2002, 05:06:22 PM »
Mark, I have just spoken with Alex Russell's son Philip, who is holidaying in Queensland.  He kept his father's golf course at Mawollock maintained until they sold the property to the Mitchell's.  He would be happy for you to get in touch with him directly, he is very elderly, but seems to have a pretty sharp memory and is thrilled at the interest in his father's work.  The Russell's originally came here to Bothwell, Tasmania in 1822 from Elie where they lived v.close to the golf course.  In all there were 3 brothers, 2 of whom were working for a farming company financed by an ancestor of Alexander Dennistoun who is credited at starting Nth America's first golf club (RMontreal).  The other was a reverend, educated at St.Andrews University, who named all the churches he preached in 'St.Andrews'.  The Russell's were instrumental in forming what we now know to be Australia's oldest golfing community.  

I also have some v.early pics of Riversdale GC from before WWII, but this may be on the first site.  Like most courses in those days, it looks pretty rough.

If you email me at gregramsay@hotmail.com i'll get the details to you, and maybe some pics of R'dale as well if relevant.

Greg Ramsay
www.barnbougledunes.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

harley

Re: Riversdale Australia
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2002, 08:30:03 PM »
Curious to know whether Russel's course at Mawallok was the first privately owned /non members course in Australia.

Can anyone shed any more light on the subject?

If not the first which course was ?

Harley K
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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