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cary lichtenstein

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Rule Changes 2008
« on: December 03, 2007, 02:03:27 AM »
Can anyone from the treehouse give us the rule changes and the reasoning behind each for next year?
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 08:21:08 AM »
A USGA rules official told me yesterday that the big change is you can identify your ball in a hazard.  In fact you'd better identify your ball in a hazard because there will now be a two stroke penalty for playing the wrong ball.

I predict many controversies about how carefully lies in the hazard are recreated when replacing the ball after identification.   ::)

I think that's the biggie.

JohnV

Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 10:25:27 AM »
Lots of little stuff and a few bigger things.  There are two good places to get all the info.  One is the USGA website.  Look at the new rule book that is online.  Starting on page 6, is a description of the principle changes.  Another is go to http://www.middleatlanticga.org/.  On the right side is a link to a PDF file that Lew Blakey put together that compares the old wording with the new wording of all the changes.

Here are the highlights:

As Bill said, the biggest is that you are penalized for playing a wrong ball anywhere on the course and that correspondingly you are allowed to identify your ball anywhere.  One additional piece of wording that was put in is that it must be "necessary to lift the ball in order to identify it".  In other words, some of these guys who are lifting their ball all the time had better have a good reason to keep doing it.  (See Rule 12-2 and 15)

Advice on yardage is no longer a penalty.  So, if a player asks how far your ball is from the hole you can tell them and nobody gets penalized.  Same if they ask how far their ball is from the hole.  This allows range finder information to be shared if they are allowed.

The penalty for hitting a shot and having it hit you, your equipment, caddie, partner etc has been lowered from two shots/loss of hole to one shot.  Jeff Maggert might have inspired this rule with the shot at the Masters that rebounded off the face of the bunker and hit him. (See Rule 19-2)

The rule for carrying but not using a non-conforming club has been changed from DQ to the same as carrying 15 clubs.  This might have been inspired by Kevin Stadler's DQ at a PGA Tour event for having a club with a bent shaft in his bag.

Lost Ball - An additional way a ball is lost when you put another one into play via stroke and distance.  In other words, if you hit your second shot, can't find it and then go back and drop a ball, your first is lost as soon as you drop the new ball rather than when you hit it.  This clarifies and somewhat reverses the change from 2004 which opened lots of holes.  Note, this only applies if you are playing under stroke and distance.  If you are dropping under one of the other options for a ball lost in a hazard and your ball is found before you hit the new one (and inside 5 minutes) you pick up the new ball and proceed with the original one (might drop in a different place based on the original ball's location.)

The Exceptions to Rule 13-4 (Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions) were modified and a third exception added.  Exception 2 was made friendlier.  If you hit your shot in a bunker and the ball is still in the bunker, you may rake and are only penalized if you improve the lie for that next shot, not any shot after that.  The third exception says that if you hit a ball from one bunker to another one, you can do anything in the first bunker.  This was inspired by Vijay Singh taking a practice stroke in the first bunker when his ball was had gone into another bunker.

Added the note to allow range finders under local rule.  This was a decision on 2006 and moved to the book in 2008.

Substituting a ball modified to remove a double penalty for simultaneously wrongfully substituting a ball and playing it from a wrong place.

No penalty for standing on or astride your line of putt inadvertently or to avoid someone else's line.  This was a decision and moves to the book.

Flagstick that has been removed and laid on the ground can now be moved if a ball in motion might strike it.

The term "Reasonable Evidence" has been replaced for balls possibly lost in a WH, obstruction, casual water, or GUR with "known or virtually certain"  This was the way rules officials were being instructed to rule and now it is more clear to the players.

Clubs may be adjustable as approved by the USGA.  This allows screw-in shafts etc.

And finally the most important (since I was one person who pointed it out to the Rules Committee ;) ) is that you aren't penalized if you are searching for a ball in an obstruction and your ball is accidentally moved.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 04:57:43 PM by John Vander Borght »

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 11:12:48 AM »
I once benefitted from the wrong ball out of a hazard rule when I hit the wrong ball out of a bunker in a match.  My opponent did not know the rule and was pretty irritated at me.

I felt guilty asserting the right to re-hit because there really was no excuse - I just failed to pay attention.  It resulted in ruining a very competitive match that was really fun up to that point.  Now, I have no idea whether I won or lost.

My guess is that the rule change will result in more, rather than less, fair outcomes.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 11:13:21 AM by Jason Topp »

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 12:33:28 PM »
John: the rule change allowing you to pick up a flagstick when it appears that a ball will hit it makes sense - it seemed to be very unsportsmanlike to have to stand there and watch it hit the stick.

Is the rule the same as to other things laying on the green such as clubs, etc.?

JohnV

Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2007, 03:30:07 PM »
Jerry,

Any players equipment or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up may be moved.  In the past, it was only when attended.  Anything else  (including an unattended flagstick that is still in the hole) can not be moved.

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 03:59:22 PM »
Can anyone from the treehouse give us the rule changes and the reasoning behind each for next year?

Cary:
The information you seek can be found on the USGA website.  Have fun understanding their reasoning.
Best
Dave

JohnV

Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2007, 05:02:12 PM »
Dave,

In general the changes this year were to either simplify the rules, make them more consistent or to lower penalties where they were considered too harsh.  Its not to hard to see how most of the rules changes fit into one of those categories.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 05:02:30 PM by John Vander Borght »

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2007, 05:04:07 PM »
John: Maybe I'm just not too bright but it was my understanding in the past that if a flagstick is lying on the ground and a putt was about to hit it, moving it was a rules violation.  My understanding is that is no longer the case and you can pick it up and there is no penalty to you or the other player.  I was presuming that it would be the same for any piece of equipment including clubs, bag or ball - am I correct?

JohnV

Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2007, 05:08:37 PM »
Jerry,

You are correct and that is what I was trying to say.  Sorry if I didn't put it succinctly enough.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rule Changes 2008
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2007, 06:16:03 PM »
John: the rule change allowing you to pick up a flagstick when it appears that a ball will hit it makes sense - it seemed to be very unsportsmanlike to have to stand there and watch it hit the stick.

Is the rule the same as to other things laying on the green such as clubs, etc.?

Jerry

The current rules allow any equipment or an attended flagstick to be moved while a ball is in motion. The rule prohibits obstructions from being moved, which includes an unattended flagstick.

Apparently it has beeen changed so that unattended flagsticks do not have the status of an obstruction
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