Pete Dye Interview Part 1 and 2 now part 3!!

[RJ_Daley]

You know you are talking to Richard J. Daley don't you?  

I trained down there in 1970, rolling with their tac squad.  A very different world from the ivy tower surrounds of Madison Wisconsin, 54 square miles surronded by reality...  

[Jay Flemma]

Part 3 is up!  He talks Alice, Doak and architecture.

http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=784

[RJ_Daley]

It sounds like ol Pete's idea of a good golf course is one that has a routing that plays fast, not half fast.  

I liked this...

Most of them, like Whistling Straits, that goes all out of whack, that’s just crazy.

JAY FLEMMA:  You mean price wise?

PETE DYE:  Price wise, yeah.  Absolutely

[Jay Flemma]

My fave was:

"And when I came back, after that, I said “Alice?”  She said “What?”  I said “why don’t we give this a try, because it’s fun.”

What a way to start a career!

He's right...it is fun.

[CHrisB]

JAY FLEMMA:  What about Bethpage?

PETE DYE:  Where the hell is that, New York?

 

[Jay Flemma]

I wish that I could post the tapes because his delivery of some of the lines was epic...you had to hear the WAY he said he was half of 162.

I wish I had gotten his dog "sixty" in there...maybe next time.  It speaks to his grace and humanity that he adopted an adult mutt who was abused.  Now that dog is the sweetest pet you could wish for.  We were petting her and playing fetch with her while talking.  What a gem of a dog.

The other great line was how Alice was playing with a bunch of girls who cant break 130...they dont get in trouble left or right, they get in trouble short.

I should have asked them how THEY play 17 at Sawgrass...

...and also when I asked about how 16 green was supposed to run away from the player and he said he might have to back and do that.  Go Pete!  I'm all for it!

[Mike Mosely]

Well how about this one.

"Here comes Alice, she’s not worried about the labor not showing up, she is not worried about the weather, she isn’t worried about the D10 blowing up, or somebody breaking and blowing up the gas main, or any of those things.  She looks at it and she says, “well why aren’t you doing this?”  And I roll my eyes and say, “oh my, that’s a good idea,” meanwhile I know what it’s going to cost to get it done, but it’s helpful."

[Jeff_Brauer]

JAY FLEMMA:  Tell us about working with Doak.  

PETE DYE:  Tom Doak started working for me picking up sticks at Long Cove.  He was good at that…picking up sticks.
 

[Tom_Doak]

Yes, Jeff, and I'm still better at picking up sticks than most of the guys I've worked with ...

[Ryan Farrow]

Jay, thanks for posting the interview, I really enjoyed reading through it. I was kind of turned off by the interview he had here on GCA, but this one was great.

[Matt Kardash]

After hearing Pete Dye talk about never getting the chance to work on sand i started wondering about if it is safe to say that of all the great architects, Pete Dye has consistently worked on the worst sites and has never trully had a GREAT site. Sure, Kiawah and teeth of the Dog had gorgeous oceanfront sites, but they were essentially flat sites with not much going on. I see the numerous great sites Tom Doak has worked on in the past 5 years and scratch my head at how Pete never had the chance to even work on one site as good as those.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

That's really pretty simple.  Pete made his reputation working with difficult sites so that is the kind of job people sought him out for.  It's just like being typecast as an actor.  I certainly noticed that and it's one of the main reasons I set out to make a reputation for working with good land.

Actually the developer of Firethorn, Dick Youngscap, is the one who developed Sand Hills and he did invite Pete to build Sand Hills -- without telling him it was in the sand hills and knowing he would be turned down.  Dick did not really think Pete was right for that kind of job.

But, I sure thought Long Cove was sandy when we were working there, and the same for Kiawah Island.

[Jay Flemma]

Can you tell us more Tom?

[RJ_Daley]

Was Kiawah more silt than sand?  Or, does Pete forget?  I stopped by Cassique when they were building it, that is close to TOC, and it seemed not purely sand and more like silty loam.  Did you work Kiawah, Thomas of Stickdom?  By that time, you must have worked your way up to 'branch manager' in the Dye organization.  

[David Botimer]

I'd like to know how much Dye factored prevailing winds into his work.

I've worked at Sawgrass and often marveled at the challenge of 17 with the wind.  Prevailing wind there is out of the north and 17 plays into the wind.  The 16th fairway serves as a wind tunnel bringing turbulence from the right.  The 18th tee to the left creates another opening for wind to enter.  Add trees behind the green and trees behind the tee, and you have the perfect whirlpool for swirling winds when they kick up.  Net result is clubbing the shot is a LOT tougher than it looks on TV!!!

Does anyone know if that was accidental, or does Dye really analyze wind in his routings.

[Jay Flemma]

David, that's a good question.  I should ask him that and I should ask him more about his thought process in the initial stages of routing then building.

[Mike Mosely]

Tom D, can you tell us more about the land and the process at Long cove and Kiawah?  Thanks.

[Andy Troeger]

After hearing Pete Dye talk about never getting the chance to work on sand i started wondering about if it is safe to say that of all the great architects, Pete Dye has consistently worked on the worst sites and has never trully had a GREAT site. Sure, Kiawah and teeth of the Dog had gorgeous oceanfront sites, but they were essentially flat sites with not much going on. I see the numerous great sites Tom Doak has worked on in the past 5 years and scratch my head at how Pete never had the chance to even work on one site as good as those.

Matt,
I suppose it depends on your definition of great, but there are a heck of a lot that would seem to be at minimum very good, including the ones you've mentioned. Blackwolf Run comes to mind as well, Whistling Straits was not a great site due to the topography but it had significant lake frontage. The sites for The Honors Course and Pete Dye GC look like they had to have been pretty interesting without having there myself. They may not be the Sand Hills or Cypress Point, but I don't think you can feel too bad for Mr. Dye all things considered. He certainly has done some great courses though on sites that had major negatives to them (although obviously major potential that he managed to tap into).

[Matt Kardash]

After hearing Pete Dye talk about never getting the chance to work on sand i started wondering about if it is safe to say that of all the great architects, Pete Dye has consistently worked on the worst sites and has never trully had a GREAT site. Sure, Kiawah and teeth of the Dog had gorgeous oceanfront sites, but they were essentially flat sites with not much going on. I see the numerous great sites Tom Doak has worked on in the past 5 years and scratch my head at how Pete never had the chance to even work on one site as good as those.

Matt,
I suppose it depends on your definition of great, but there are a heck of a lot that would seem to be at minimum very good, including the ones you've mentioned. Blackwolf Run comes to mind as well, Whistling Straits was not a great site due to the topography but it had significant lake frontage. The sites for The Honors Course and Pete Dye GC look like they had to have been pretty interesting without having there myself. They may not be the Sand Hills or Cypress Point, but I don't think you can feel too bad for Mr. Dye all things considered. He certainly has done some great courses though on sites that had major negatives to them (although obviously major potential that he managed to tap into).

I agree with what you said. However, like I said, none of those rival some sites Tom Doak had had the chance to work in the past 5 years. though certainly Blackwolf run and the Pete Dye golf club are beautiful sites. Of all Pete dye's course's, I get the feeling the Pete dye golf club will be looked on more fondly over time...just my sneaking suspicion.

[Willie_Dow]

Jay - After all of your wonderful Discussion Group with Pete Dye I would love to find him back here in Vero to give us a picture for the future for The Moorings.  

[Jay Flemma]

He'll be there soon...winter is coming.