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Jed Peters

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Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« on: November 12, 2007, 02:37:55 PM »
Yesterday I heard a guy say that my club (Morgan Creek Golf and Country Club, where there is a GCA outing on November 17th) "sucks".

I asked him if he'd ever played there before...and his answer was "yes, once".

I saw these guys HACKING away a couple fairways behind me, and this guy said that the course was "too hard" even from the whites (where they were playing from).

Now the course is a 71.something courserating and 133 slope from the whites, being almost 6200 yards.

Can a course be "too" difficult for the high-handicapper, and if it is--does that mean that the course "sucks"?

What are other examples of courses that can play easy from the "front" tees but are a challenge from the back tees?

I'm also curious to see what the members of GCA think of the course, and to see if the course is playable for the "high handicapper".  (Morgan Creek is no course for the beginning golfer!)

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 03:39:46 PM »
Any course can seem too hard if your hacking it around. :P
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Matt MacIver

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Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 03:47:40 PM »
The only thing I know about slope ratings is what I've read here, and I've forgotten most of it.  But in a vacumm, 6200 white tees and 133 slope equals pretty hard for the bogey golfer, relative to most other courses I've seen.  

Wonder what the average slope rating would be for a sample of courses measured from 6200-6400 yards.  I'm guessing it would be in the mid- 120's, or lower.  

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2007, 03:49:36 PM »
Sounds to me that it is more likely that he sucks.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mark Smolens

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Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2007, 03:58:07 PM »
Admittedly the guy making the initial comment wasn't too bright.  However, the real question posed, as to courses that play easier from forward tees, I would point to TPC at Sawgrass.  I've been there a number of times before the latest renovations, with a group of widely-ranging skills.  The white tees are positioned so that the higher handicappers don't have to carry the hazards that are more and more in play the further back you go.  Great design in my view, and an extraordinarily fun course to play.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2007, 04:08:31 PM »
Many courses are too difficult for the high handicapper; some work OK from very short tees, some don't even from those.  And just try getting a male golfer with any sort of ego to play the farthest up tees, no matter how poor his abilities at the game.  Few and far between are those who check their egos in this way.

But this doesn't mean necessarily that these courses suck; I firmly believe that courses that try to be all things for all golfers invariably fail in the attempt for any.

As I recall Morgan Creek is a pretty difficult course, and as Jed says, no place for a beginner.  I would never say the course sucks.  But I would say the course "sucks for a beginner."  To me, that's what par three courses and executive courses and the like are for (among other things).

TH

JSPayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2007, 04:10:42 PM »
Jed,

Having played your course several times, and paired with high handicappers (though myself I am a lower handicapper) I think it is safe to say that Morgan Creek, IN GENERAL, is one of the tougher courses in the area. I've never heard that your course "sucks" but even I believe it to be a tougher, challanging course.

I think the real issue there, as well as at other courses here locally such as Granite Bay, Whitney Oaks, and perhaps Turkey Creek, is that there exists some serious native areas or housing bordering the holes. In comparison to other tracks such as Woodcreek, Sierra View or Diamond Oaks, where fairways paralell each other and there is alot of open space, your course plays more difficult for the higher handicappers because they tend to lose more balls because of how irradic their tee shots can be.

Also, the speeds and contours of your greens (which I enjoy by the way) can often prove very difficult for the higher handicapper, or any golfer who only plays golf on an occasional basis and may be out of touch with their putting feel.

By no means does this make your course "suck". Be proud you have a home track that caters more to the adament, regular and passionate golfers and not your local four-round-a-year hack.
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2007, 04:14:59 PM »
Can a course be "too" difficult for the high-handicapper, and if it is--does that mean that the course "sucks"?

What are other examples of courses that can play easy from the "front" tees but are a challenge from the back tees?

Of course, and of course not.

As for the last question, I guess I'd say relative to what player, and what "front" tees?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2007, 04:30:36 PM »
I agree with Tommy, sounds like the "gentleman" concerned sucks...oh by the way I was 9 over after nine at this yeras Crump Cup so does that mean Pine Valley sucked that day?
nooooooo...but I did ;D

But the course got better on the back!

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2007, 04:46:57 PM »

I saw these guys HACKING away a couple fairways behind me, and this guy said that the course was "too hard" even from the whites (where they were playing from).


Then perhaps he should play from the reds until he figures out how to improve his skill(less) set.

ego + golf = anger.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2007, 04:47:11 PM »
Yesterday I heard a guy say that my club (Morgan Creek Golf and Country Club, where there is a GCA outing on November 17th) "sucks".

I asked him if he'd ever played there before...and his answer was "yes, once".

I saw these guys HACKING away a couple fairways behind me, and this guy said that the course was "too hard" even from the whites (where they were playing from).

Now the course is a 71.something courserating and 133 slope from the whites, being almost 6200 yards.

Can a course be "too" difficult for the high-handicapper, and if it is--does that mean that the course "sucks"?

What are other examples of courses that can play easy from the "front" tees but are a challenge from the back tees?

I'm also curious to see what the members of GCA think of the course, and to see if the course is playable for the "high handicapper".  (Morgan Creek is no course for the beginning golfer!)


I'd say Winged Foot and Oakmont are...but all the members seem to love it!

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Overheard at my club--"This course sucks!"
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2007, 06:58:10 PM »
As in most things in life one must always consider the source. When someone is having a career round the course never bears the brunt-but a bad round. Look out. Golfers who play beyond an 18 handicap would probably enjoy their round if they played from tees at a slope of less than 130.

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