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Norbert P

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When Sporty Transcends
« on: November 20, 2007, 01:36:41 AM »
 What makes a sporty course sporty and when and how does it make the grade as a respectable test?
 How short can a course be these days and still be great?
 What are some great sporty courses and what features make them so?
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2007, 01:49:30 AM »
Slag, I wonder if most 'sporty' courses aren't a bit more within the realm of local hidden gems, daily fees, etc.  I could name a few here in Wisconsin, but no one would really know them.

I think that sporty courses definitely have quirky contours leading or demanding finicky shots.  I think the length is somewhat irrelavant due to the wide disparity of length prowess with the new B&I out of control.  

Maybe the good side of 'sporty' courses surviving, is that if they do tend to be short, us old farts can still play them and have great fun, without the complaint that all the holes are driver 9-I or wedge.  

One we have played here this past week is the course that is open whenever you can see grass.  Most of my pals play it before spring opening or after fall closing of our home county course.  It was named "Mystery Hills" for many years, and locals humorously called it Mystery Greens.  I think quirky contoured greens is a good marker for a course to be called 'sporty'.  I think you'd love it.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2007, 09:35:54 AM »
What makes a sporty course sporty and when and how does it make the grade as a respectable test?
 How short can a course be these days and still be great?
 What are some great sporty courses and what features make them so?


Greens, greens, greens...if you ask me!


Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2007, 10:20:21 AM »
What makes a sporty course sporty and when and how does it make the grade as a respectable test?
 How short can a course be these days and still be great?
 What are some great sporty courses and what features make them so?


Greens, greens, greens...if you ask me!



Agree 100%
but I'll also add:
*angles - doglegs favoring both the inside and outside of the curve
*uneven lies

-Ted

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2007, 03:21:12 PM »
Hills like Ballycastle's?

Alfie

Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2007, 07:14:45 PM »
Hi there Mr Bandoon of Oregon,

Well, you know what my answer is going to be..........

Use hickory, and balls that don't go far - that should keep ANY short course sporty !

In fact, forget the complication of finding hickories - just use balls that been "snipped" and enjoy safe fun. (There's an obvious analogy here ? ;) )

Aw the best,

Alfie.


Kyle Harris

Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2007, 07:47:37 PM »
Reading CC is quirky.

Mountain Lake is sporty.

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2007, 09:00:11 PM »
 I started writing the original post/question last night, a very detailed slog about Carradale with references to Merion and Woking, and then, on the verge of the sleeping edge, I started typing with my forehead. If it was putting me to sleep well, it must be a dragging of fingernails on the blackboard for y'all.
  Anyway, thanks for the replies, and Alfie! anytime I can lob a pumpkin in for you to post to, I feel I've received more than I had hoped for. I would say Happy Thanksgiving but you're a Scot!  What translates for yee?  Be well and, er, uh, Happy Queen's Anniversary!  Willie Fernie rocks!

  I totally agree with attention to greens and angles to get to them on shorter courses. From this moment on, with God as my witness! or until I forget,  I will appreciate a short course if the designs are clever, regardless of their length. I will play them. I will play them again. I will support them with praise and cash  ... if they have a cute cart girl.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 09:02:26 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2007, 09:04:10 PM »
Alfie,

I'm not prepared to go 'that' far to enjoy sportiness in golf. :o
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Alfie

Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2007, 06:32:45 AM »
Mr Slag,

"Anyway, thanks for the replies, and Alfie! anytime I can lob a pumpkin in for you to post to, I feel I've received more than I had hoped for. I would say Happy Thanksgiving but you're a Scot!  What translates for yee?  Be well and, er, uh, Happy Queen's Anniversary!  Willie Fernie rocks!"

Very kind of you...whatever a pumpkin is ? We have tatties, neeps & haggis as a rule.
And a happy Thanksgiving to you too sir....whatever that is ?
And Fernie does rock, but the Queen can go pull the Dukes Willie....wherever that is :o
.............

RJ,

C'mon RJ, what are ye afraid of ? Putting the old hickories to the side, or is it the "snip" that's put the fear of death into you ? Golfers just aint what they used to be. :)


Alfie.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2007, 02:14:16 PM »
Richard is perhaps a bit too shy of promoting one of his favorites, for fear too many people will go there! So I'll take the bait -- I'm sure he'd mention Quit-Qui-Oc, a sporty Bendelow course in the Kettle Moraine area north of Erin Hills and west of the Kohler kingdom courses.

To me, sporty is something like Dunaverty, a short but occasionally tough links south of Machrihanish. Some very good holes, although it's much too short to be considered anything other than what is often referred to as "holiday golf" courses. I'd contrast it to Shiskine or Stonehaven, both of which to me are quirky (Stonehaven being in the ultra-quirky category) moreso than sporty.

Dick -- Eagle Springs? Or the old George Williams university course in Williams Bay? Now that's pretty sporting w/ some interesting design history....

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2007, 11:34:09 PM »
Phil, I didn't have time to play Dunaverty but I walked about half of it. It looked like a lot of fun and the cow dodging would have added some athleticism to the round.

  I'm intrigued to find examples of non-long courses that have great and interesting defenses - defenses that exemplify strength without massive length that are not just penal but present options.
  Prairie Dunes looks and sounds fascinating. I've never played it but it is on my Wanna Play Before I Die list.  
  North Berwick, Lahinch and Prestwick I have played and find their images in my head when I daydream about courses that don't need Driver off every par 4 and 5.
  I understand the lure of the Driver, as lightning has even struck in my bag, but with the ball being longer, rounder and straighter than ever, it seems like using other clubs in the bag can create some more interest in the shots to the greens.
Is it the card and pencil routine that sheathes our other clubs?  I wonder sometimes if the mentality of the modern golfer is geared toward the all-or-nothing shot because of the golf cultures that have developed through longer and longer courses over the years.  
 
  Which brings me back to Carradale, just north of Dunaverty. It had these short par 4 holes going back and forth between two dunes and I'm sure some of you could drive them and the fairways were shared so there wasn't much of a penalty if one sprayed the drive. Anyway, using the Driver made the approaches, for me, a chip or pitch from a lobby range and the small greens were not exactly easy to peg, but I found myself on the second round using different clubs for the drive so the approaches would be more testing and interesting.

  So, what courses can make you rethink your drives for interest to the greens, if not for a lower score.
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2007, 08:39:12 PM »
Hills like Ballycastle's?

Mark, in September we drove from Portrush to Belfast via Ballycastle and I wondered about the course there.  The area is lovely with great terrain and maybe ocean views.  What is Ballycastle Golf Club like?

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2007, 08:41:38 PM »
In East Lothian I would classify Muirfield as traditional championship fare while North Berwick West Links is "sporty."  Agreed?

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2007, 11:08:19 PM »
In '96 we took the ferry from Scotland to Northern Ireland, and Ballycastle was our first stop.  Pouring rain, so our 3 ball was the only players on the course.  Ballycastle was very short, much less than 6000 yards as I recall, but I cannot recall having more fun during any round that trip - which included among others 36 at Prestwick, which was second on my list, Troon, Western Gailes, Turnberry, Portrush, County Down, Portmarnock, and Southerness in another driving rainstorm (only two of us played on that last day).

Uphill into the wind 310 yard par 4 was driver 3-iron (yes, I had a 3-iron in the bag back then).  Next hole, back down the hill, was 3 wood, pitch.  There were a bunch of small islands right offshore which were sometimes visible when the rain died a little, and then disappeared into the mist.  Cool rope bridge.  One long par-3, and a cool short one.  It's a long time ago, but the thing I remember was that we had so much fun.

I was very upset last summer when I couldn't talk my group into a quick detour from Portrush to another round at Ballycastle (tho as it turned out Castlerock was a worthy substitute).  

hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2007, 06:03:58 AM »
Carolina CC in Raleigh might make the list.  Short at 6,300 yards it contains no less than 6 challenging par threes and two longish par fours.  The others are a mix of uphill and dowhhill shorter holes.  Most guys leave with their tails between their legs wondering how they didnt fare better.


Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2007, 05:03:47 PM »
In '96 we took the ferry from Scotland to Northern Ireland, and Ballycastle was our first stop.  Pouring rain, so our 3 ball was the only players on the course.  Ballycastle was very short, much less than 6000 yards as I recall, but I cannot recall having more fun during any round that trip - which included among others 36 at Prestwick, which was second on my list, Troon, Western Gailes, Turnberry, Portrush, County Down, Portmarnock, and Southerness in another driving rainstorm (only two of us played on that last day).

Uphill into the wind 310 yard par 4 was driver 3-iron (yes, I had a 3-iron in the bag back then).  Next hole, back down the hill, was 3 wood, pitch.  There were a bunch of small islands right offshore which were sometimes visible when the rain died a little, and then disappeared into the mist.  Cool rope bridge.  One long par-3, and a cool short one.  It's a long time ago, but the thing I remember was that we had so much fun.

I was very upset last summer when I couldn't talk my group into a quick detour from Portrush to another round at Ballycastle (tho as it turned out Castlerock was a worthy substitute).  

Castlerock is fun, isn't it?  I really liked that par 3, Leg of Mutton.  The pin was in a scary place, front left, so I hit a deliberately short 6 iron right front and lagged a putt from off the green to gimme range.  Gotta love links golf!

The best holes, I thought, were #7 and #8, very solid par 4s up into the higher dunesland with the greens benched into the dune.  Those were super holes.   There were also a few less interesting holes, but the finish was good.  Fun course.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 09:51:23 PM by Bill_McBride »

Mark Smolens

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Re:When Sporty Transcends
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2007, 12:16:48 PM »
After our round, during lunch, the pro told us that the other course (may not even have been 18) was a lot of fun too, but  we were back on the bus to County Down.  Sure hope I hit those six numbers last night so I can make the trip every year!

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