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mike_malone

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Classic Courses-Big Changes in Early Years
« on: August 14, 2002, 08:48:31 AM »
When i read about changes made to classic courses it usually is many years later.How about changes made in the first ten years of opening?
 For example,the Flynn course i play has 1926 aerials and 1937 as well.It is interesting to see that on the short par 4 #12 that doglegs right,the 1926 photo shows a fairway trap on the left and 2 traps on either side of the green.The 1937 photo shows no trap left,but 2 on the right and three small ones added to the back of the green.
  MOST  AMAZING IS the addition of a second green for the par 4#15!!!!
  I speculate that Flynn came back to make adjustments based on the play.
 Do not forget that hundreds of trees were also planted all over the course by 1937.The aerials look like Sen.Proxmire's head(remember when he got those plugs)
 This gives me pause when we put so much emphasis on the original plans.I haven't even touched on what was in them that never made it to construction.
 Do you have other examples?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
AKA Mayday

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Courses-Big Changes in Early Years
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2002, 09:41:13 AM »
Interlachen and Minikahda weren't old when Donald Ross was brought in.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Classic Courses-Big Changes in Early Years
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2002, 09:45:52 AM »
mayday;

I'm not sure this fits the exact requirements of your question, but the biggest, quickest change to a classic course I'm familiar with is Fenway Golf Club.

In 1922, the club was founded and had Devereux Emmett design a golf course.  Evidently, the club members were not impressed in a neighborhood with Winged Foot, Quaker Ridge, et.al, and brought in Tillinghast a short two years later to completely redesign it.  

For anyone who hasn't played Fenway, it's superb, particularly since the recent Gil Hanse restoration.  The greens are the best from Tillinghast I've ever seen.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Courses-Big Changes in Early Years
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2002, 09:58:58 AM »
Mike
  it is interesting that a course was redesigned that soon.What i am after is evidence that classic architects came back to revise their initial construction soon.

  I guess i am getting at this" restore to what "question.
  I am becoming convinced that restoring to a concept should be the goal.
  "What would Flynn do today based on what he did then?"
  If he returned to make changes  then it adds to the idea that the original designs are not the Bible,but a working paper.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
AKA Mayday

Dave_Miller

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Re: Classic Courses-Big Changes in Early Years
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2002, 10:19:20 AM »
Mayday:

Charles River CC opened in 1921 (Donald Ross) with the 18th hole a dog leg left with a pond near the dog leg.

A few years later (I don't remember off the top of my head the exact year) the 18th was re-designed to be a 435 yard hole with a very slight dog leg left (Actually it is almost straightaway but not quite).

It turns out the pond kept flooding and over running the fairway making the hole unplayable.  Donald Ross was a member of the Club and re-designed the hole to its current location.  

I'm not sure if he made any other changes at this time but this is an example of the original designer making a change based upon what was found after playing for some period of time.

The pond still exists at about 240 yards out to the left of the hole.  It really is not in play but a very big hitter who hits a huge hook to the left could catch it.

Fairways and Greens,

Dave
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Lovito

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Re: Classic Courses-Big Changes in Early Years
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2002, 11:10:13 AM »
Mayday,

Another example would be Plainfield.  Roughly ten years after being opened major changes were made to accommodate a new driving range.  Two holes were completely eliminated (original 17 & 18), a par 3 and 4 were combined into a par 5 (now #12 and one of the best holes on the course) and three new holes (#13,14,15) were added on additional club property.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

mike_malone

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Re: Classic Courses-Big Changes in Early Years
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2002, 11:22:06 AM »
John
  Amazing how often great clubs remove nice holes to put in driving ranges.I love when you go to Ireland and play Royal County Down or Portmarnock with no range.One of them has a net.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
AKA Mayday

brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Courses-Big Changes in Early Years
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2002, 02:59:17 PM »
We talked about this a while back, many a good-great older course has had the course harmed by the addition of a practice facility, all in all a VERY difficult issue to deal with.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Classic Courses-Big Changes in Early Years
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2002, 06:59:29 PM »
mayday;

Probably the best example is the re-work that William Flynn did at Merion in the mid-20s in conjunction with Hugh Wilson, a little over a decade after the course's opening.

They significantly changed the 1st, 2nd, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, all of which created the present routing and many of the greatest holes ever seen!  

I'm not as familiar with the evolution of Pinehurst #2, but I do know that Ross made a good number of changes over 25 years or so of tinkering.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »