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Dan Herrmann

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Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2007, 10:39:13 AM »
A simple walk at Pine Valley during the Crump Cup convinced me that GCA helps the environment.

Just compare Clementon, NJ to Pine Valley, NJ.

One is like the Garden of Eden.  The other...  isn't.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 10:39:30 AM by Dan Herrmann »

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2007, 11:32:05 AM »
A simple walk at Pine Valley during the Crump Cup convinced me that GCA helps the environment.

Just compare Clementon, NJ to Pine Valley, NJ.

One is like the Garden of Eden.  The other...  isn't.

Right, if we located all our homes and businesses and power plants and roads on (exclusively private) golf courses, there would no such thing as environmental problems.  

PCCraig

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Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2007, 12:35:52 PM »
Adam,

The comments are noted. I have been looking at all of the links that fellow GCAers have sent me and I am working on an outline as we speak.

I agree a look needs to be site specific...hence why I brought up the Trump course in CA.

Thanks everyone!

Pat
H.P.S.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2007, 01:10:48 PM »
Alex,
You know what I meant :)

A properly run golf course benefits the environment while surburan chaos hurts the environment.

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2007, 01:28:37 PM »
Alex,
You know what I meant :)

A properly run golf course benefits the environment while surburan chaos hurts the environment.

Yeah, i was being a little silly.  I can mostly agree with your statement above.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2007, 02:11:09 PM »
Pat,

Of course, I am biased in favor of golf, but if golf courses are such an environmental disaster, why to the articles claiming that keep going back to the same three examples of pollution to “prove it?”  They cite the diazanon bird kill in the 50’s (later proved to be a disgruntled employee pouring it in the pond) the Nemacur spill in the Inter Coastal Waterway in the 80’s, and a few claims of “multiple chemical sensitivity” (never proven directly linked to golf pesticides if memory servers) in the 90’s.  

What human activity hasn't had a few incidents, particularly with disgruntled employees? It seems there would be more consistent examples of negative environmental impacts.  Overall, I think golf has always done pretty well just because of its nature and has spent 20 years getting even better.

What never gets reported is how the golf industry has tremendously reduced water, fertilizer and pesticide uses on golf courses.  I have read numbers of 25-66% reductions.

On top of that, most fertilizers and pesticides used on golf courses are formulated to degrade/decompose into simpler, harmless compounds in a matter of days when applied correctly under normal conditions.  You might remember Chlordane, and the new treatment Chlordane SL (which stands for Short Life) Instead of lasting forever, it breaks down quickly.  Of course, it must be replaced to continue control, but if there is a mistake, that mistake has no lasting influences.

The majority of contamination cases come from chemical run off. Only in sandy soils and shallow water tables does leaching usually become a problem. Many cases of contaminated wells were found to be a result of the farmers washing their equipment so close to the wells, and causing run off, rather than chemicals leaching through the soils.  

Technically, the compounds are broken down in three ways - microbial, chemical, and photo-degradation.

Microbial degradation breaks down of pesticides with fungi, bacteria, and other soil microorganisms that use pesticides as a food source. Soil moisture, temperature, aeration, pH, and organic matter affect microbial degradation rates, because they influence microbial growth/activity. Repeated chemical applications actually increase the microbes’ food source, which increases their quantity, which accelerates degradation.

Chemical degradation breaks down pesticides by soil chemical reactions.  Many organophosphate and carbonate insecticides are broken down by hydrolysis where the pesticide reacts with water, with some actually broken clown within a matter of hours when mixed with alkaline water.

Photo-degradation is the breakdown of pesticides by light, particularly sunlight. Photo-degradation can destroy pesticides on foliage, on the soil surface, and even in the air.

Modern pesticides are also used at a fraction of the rate that old ones (like DDT) were used.  For that reason, I hate generalizations that “golf courses use “a lot” of chemicals.  

Newer pesticides accept that bugs can die slowly, and still be dead, to lower the application rate.  Newer chemicals affect motor skills so they limp around and can’t get food, as much as it outright poisons them.  When my old house had termites, the applicator put a fly and termite in a closed box, shot in a puff of the Chlordane SL.  The smaller termite showed some effects, and the fly showed less immediately because of greater size and weight.  If there is that much of a difference in reaction for those small animals, how much less would it affect a 200 lb man, or even 20 lb baby at those application rates?  

For both fertilizers and pesticides, only in cases where the application is poorly executed or, sometimes, unusual events, such as a sudden, unexpected washing rainstorm that products will be carried off the target crop. Otherwise, runoff will be minimal.  Studies at Texas A and M showed that, even when applying nitrogen and irrigation at ten times the normal rate, 99.9% of the fertilizers stayed on site, and only 0.1% was collected in runoff, suggesting that in normal application, perhaps 0.00001% of fertilizers run off.

Those who are against golf courses have the view that no expense is too great, and want “guarantees” that no chemical will ever affect anyone.  It seems that we are at the point where that’s true, except in unusual human error or weather conditions.  

But, it’s a matter of going from 99.999% good to 100%, which is also a matter of perspective.  Depending on your point of view, the cost 100% chemical containment may or may not be important enough to justify the cost for the few that might be affected.  

As to erosion during construction – yes that can happen, but there are strong erosion controls in place.  There have been accidents – the Pete Dye course in CA collapsed into the ocean as a result of a sanitary sewer line that crossed the golf course breaking.  (What a crappy situation that was!)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

TaylorA

Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2007, 03:29:05 PM »
Alex,
You know what I meant :)

A properly run golf course benefits the environment while surburan chaos hurts the environment.

Suburban "chaos" hurts the environment - relative to what? To a golf course? Why choose the suburbs? Why not third world countries? Why not oil refineries? Why not mansions inhabited by  and private jets flown by ne'er-do-wells who spout unending environmental shtick?

Powell Arms

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2007, 09:04:27 PM »
Adam,

The comments are noted. I have been looking at all of the links that fellow GCAers have sent me and I am working on an outline as we speak.

I agree a look needs to be site specific...hence why I brought up the Trump course in CA.

Thanks everyone!

Pat

Pat,

I look forward to seeing the result.  I would suggest that much of the answer to this question lies not in an absolute measure of the effect of a golf course on the environment, but is a contrast between the effect of a golf course and alternate uses.  Unless someone is buying land and applying conservation easements, alternate uses would be the relevant measure, IMO.  And, in that context, I would think that the a golf course has minimal effect on the environment.
PowellArms@gmail.com
@PWArms

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2007, 10:04:46 PM »
Alex,
You know what I meant :)

A properly run golf course benefits the environment while surburan chaos hurts the environment.

Suburban "chaos" hurts the environment - relative to what? To a golf course? Why choose the suburbs? Why not third world countries? Why not oil refineries? Why not mansions inhabited by  and private jets flown by ne'er-do-wells who spout unending environmental shtick?

Taylor,
I meant suburban/exurban chaos is bad becuase it typically requires a car, typically doesn't have the necessary infrastructure (rapid transit), and allows McMansions on acre+ plots, where higher density planning (R-8?) provides better land use.

But keep in mind that I used to live in Portland, the home of the 'urban growth boundry line'.  I really liked it there, but I realize that a lot of folks have quite a different opinion.

I'm far from an expert here.  My only experience was working as a citizen with the city government in Beaverton, OR.  It was a voulenteer position, and I admit that I'm a neophyte.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2007, 10:41:23 AM »
One of the world's richest collections of urban wetlands is housed on golf courses. And, unlike other wetlands areas, golf wetlands are sustained by private funding and are usually in areas where they are needed — more urban settings mostly devoid of large, natural areas due to development and housing.

The other benefits of golf are as drainage fields, filtration fields, habitat corridors, and — in generel — sustainable open space.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2007, 04:28:20 PM »
I would think the amount of water used would have to be right at the top of the list of the effect of golf courses on the environment.  Especially in the Southwest US.  I only saw that mentioned in the 1st post in this thread.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2007, 07:00:50 PM »
Keep in mind that many of our courses in the desert use effluent water (treated sewage.) Where would you prefer that water end up? Plant filtration before re-charge into the ground is a much better option that simply re-charging or dispersing the treated sewage onto/into the ground.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Powell Arms

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2007, 07:02:57 PM »
Yes, but if we got rid of all of the people, there would be no effluent. ;)
PowellArms@gmail.com
@PWArms

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2007, 07:16:16 PM »
Hey I thought effluent meant to come from a wealthy and prestigious background...I guess this makes sense now, I see what my teachers growing up were really trying to tell me...  :-[  :-[  ;D

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2007, 08:36:13 PM »
Percentage of posters on this thread who drive SUVs and run water while brushing their teeth = 75%
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2007, 07:33:49 PM »
I would think the amount of water used would have to be right at the top of the list of the effect of golf courses on the environment.  Especially in the Southwest US.  I only saw that mentioned in the 1st post in this thread.

Alex - correct.   It's also a shame to see US courses trying to emulate ANGC and overwatering, overwatering, overwatering.  Of course, overwatering leads to disease and poor roots.   It's a classic case of trying to do the right thing but hurting yourself in the process.

The irony is that AGNC is a firm/fast golf course if the weather allows.

But don't today's new strains of bentgrass require a lot less water?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 07:34:42 PM by Dan Herrmann »

Jason McNamara

Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2007, 07:53:37 PM »
Keep in mind that many of our courses in the desert use effluent water (treated sewage.) Where would you prefer that water end up?

I realize it's a tiny number at present, but how many courses use paspalum these days?

Jason

ps to Kalen re "effluent:"   :)

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Course Architecture's Effect on the Environment
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2007, 07:55:00 PM »
None in central/southern Arizona. Yet. At least none to my knowledge.

In Mexico we are seeing loads of paspalum. At Las Palomas we used SeaDwarf wall to wall.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

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