[Dan Moore]

Jeff,

Maybe this helps or I am wrong that you would be familiar with this course.  The original Langford Moreau green would have been a little to the right of the current green.

[Forrest Richardson]

How many can you stand? I had to answer that recently at Peacock Gap (North of SF). Our re-do of the course focused on greens and bunkers because good old Billy Bell (Jr.) created a course smack in the midst of a swamp. This created a poorly draining site with not much room for any adjustments up, down or sideways. The result is a smorgasbord of greens:

Potato Chips (Bell's classic): 7
Tiered: 3
Plateau: 2
Bottleneck: 1
Canted (Another Bell Classic): 4
Very Wacky, Defies Description: 1

So, I felt 3 was the magic answer. One is a par-3 with 4-ft of difference from back to front in a long, narrow green. Another, also a par-3, has a pocket well below at the right. The last is a par-4 to a very wide green with two upper levels on the sides and a 3-ft. lower area in the center. This one is also sort of wacky, but most who have seen it smile.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Dan,

I know this is a KN redo from the look of it, but I wasn't involved in all of them, even from 1977-83 when I worked for them.  I just don't recognize it off hand.

Forrest,

Good to hear from you!  I like your mix, but were the potato chips ridged or smooth?  Any cheeto greens?

Seriously, what's the difference between a plateau and Tiered green?  Is the plateau a "fortress green" small and elevated, but without real movement?

And, I kind of like your "target mix" (OR should that be "trail mix?")  I sort of target a few canted greens (left, right, and backwards), an "ultra long and narrow (or ultra wide and shallow) an unusual green (like a boomerang) and one heavily contoured green on many designs, although the target mix sort of needs Viagra because it is never firm..........

I  believe you need the almost circular, potato chip greens as the "basic model" to make the others stand out as a change of pace.

[Forrest Richardson]

Jeff — Those are good questions and they certainly show how busy you and I must be at the moment.  

The plateau at No. 10 (par-3) is a raised green (it also has a tier to the right), but the main feature is banked sides that literally create a plateau. Oh, and there is a 2-ft deep depression left of center where I intend to have the pin placed so I can record my first hole in one.

The other plateau is No. 17 (par-4) with a raise green set diaginally to a burn (also called a slough). This green falls off to the burn, front back and sides. It looks dead flat, but there is a margin of fall away from the burn.

The potato chips are sand ridges. We did go with low fat — sand only.

[Forrest Richardson]

Here is an old project (15+ years ago.) Shots some in from the right. It is a 150-yard par-3.

[Dan Moore]

Sorry Jeff.  Its Butterfield CC.  Most of the Langford Moreau has been stripped out of it or is in the woods.  They recently voted to approve a $12.5 mil "enhancement"  that was so close they are reconsidering what to do.  Much of the work would involve the creek that runs all over the property but another goal would be to restore the L/M look to the bunkering.  

[Joe Hancock]

Dan Moore,

Is that 12.5 mil, or 2.5 mil?

Joe

[Jeff_Brauer]

Dan,

Thanks.  In the second pic, I thought that might have been Butterfield from the bunker. I have an older picture of that bunker which I used in the NGF "planning and building the golf course" book.  It was a little more defined back then, and has now been softened.

Are both pics the same green?

[Dan Moore]

Jeff,  Its the same green.  The close-up is from the trees on the right.  

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