News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Jeff Mingay

The Hempstead Plain
« on: August 26, 2002, 02:20:54 PM »
I had the pleasure of visiting Garden City Golf Club last week... Is there a cooler place for golf, anywhere?

A product of the combined talents of Dev Emmett and Walter Travis, Garden City provides such an attractive and warm environment for golf.

The routing (basically Emmett's, I believe; circa 1899) is very intimate and, with that, the course is easily walkable.

Its openess and expansiveness is wonderful as well! Bordered by trees on its periphery, the interior of the golf course is almost devoid of trees; but for a few individuals here and there, and a couple groves in perfect spots, that complement the course rather than detract from the golf.  

Highlights include:

*The 1st hole: This must have been one of the most strategic par 4 holes in golf when it was completed near the turn of the 20th century. The tee, I understand, was further right of its present location originally. In order to open up the tiny green for the second shot, a large, nasty waste area on the right (has) to be carried. Bailing out to the left, where the carry to reach the short grass is significantly shorter, leaves an approach over deep greenside bunkers into the shallowest portion of the putting surface, guarded behind by a bunker as well [it's classic!].

*Quirky, rough grass covered "piles": There are so many neat , or piles, throughout the course, covered with rough grasses and other plants -- like those some 100 yards or so in front of the 1st tee that have to be carried to reach the left side of the fairway: "top shot" hazards in Travis' day, I presume! Many such "piles" were obviously created with the excavated material from bunker construction.

*The hazards: Almost all of the bunkers at Garden City are very, very deep "pots" [well, expect for the really neat, and very original, convex ones!]. In similar fashion to the classic links of Great Britain, which were undoubtedly Travis' model during his remodel of Emmett's original design, the bunkers at Garden City are penal in nature. And, as at St. Andrews, so many are blind from the tees.      

*The rough: Whereas the tees, fairways and putting greens are perfectly manicured, the rest of the course is seemingly left to nature. The entire landscape exhibits beautiful texture as a result, and the rough is literally rough!

*The 2nd hole: The (infamous) par 3 2nd -- the bottomless pit -- lives up to its reputation! A great little hole.

*The blind tee shots: I absolutely love the blind drives at the 3rd, the 7th, the 10th and, most of all, the 17th -- all played over gentle rises covered with native grasses and other plants that obscure the fairways and their hazards. You can see the top-half of the flagsticks at the 3rd and the 10th, but nothing else! At the 17th, the flag isn't even in view. Your aim is the church steeple in the distance!

*The greens: All of the greens at Garden City are low profile, literally sitting at native grade. The sandy nature of the soil allowed for this [along with the excavation of those seriously deep sand pits throughout the course]. The severe "fall-away" green at the par 4 10th is probably most notable, along with the severe left-to-right tilt of the greens at the par 4 3rd and par 4 15th holes.

*The 18th hole: A wonderful rendition of Eden (the 11th at St. Andrews), with the right side of the putting surface serving as the practice green. The depth of the Hill (Travis) and Strath bunkers here must be seen to be believed! And the "Eden bunker" behind the green is beautiful.

I could go on and on... [the only blemish is the par 3 12th. Redone by RTJ some time during the 1950s, I think, it sticks out like a "sore thumb". Although some others say, so did Travis' original punchbowl green at the 12th?]

The bottom line is that Garden City is maintained as one of the world's greatest places for golf, thanks to the efforts of the club membership, golf course superintendent Ed Butler and his staff, and consulting golf architect Tom Doak.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Hempstead Plain
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2002, 03:05:47 PM »
Jeff,

Sorry I missed you, but I'm glad you enjoyed GCGC.

On # 1, one of the prevailing winds is at your back making the second shot from the left fairway.... dicey.  
And,...the tee shot into # 2 is back, into a good breeze.

The 4th hole tee shot is fairly blind, and the 13th green slopes away like the 10th.  

There is something neat about the view from the 17th tee, back down # 16 fairway, down # 4 fairway, and at the clock tower appearing behind and above the bunker flag and trees down the 17th fairway.

As to the 12th hole, all I can say is:
It's absolutely amazing that a blight has remained on this great golf course for almost forty (40) years.

A highly sympathetic restoration would be relatively easy, cheap, and only slightly disruptive to membership play, yet, resistance continues, even from unexpected sources.

Garden City Golf Club, like others clubs, is not safe from proposed changes that are a departure from the
Emmett-Travis architectural principles.  

It's interesting and surprising to find out that some propose changes, while opposing restoration.

Unfortunately,
ETERNAL VIGILANCE IS THE PRICE OF GREATNESS !
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff Mingay

Re: The Hempstead Plain
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2002, 04:55:51 PM »
Yes, that's right Pat. I don't know how I forgot about that great retreating green at the 13th too!

You're a lucky man to play your golf at Garden City... let's just hope the 12th green complex is restored someday, soon. Although not a fellow member, I'm a supporter of the idea.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom Doak

Re: The Hempstead Plain
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2002, 05:09:05 AM »
(Consultant, Garden City G.C.)

Dear Pat:

I am really tiring of hearing how I'm letting down Garden City Golf Club by not restoring the 12th hole to its original design.

I have proposed restoring the green on two or three different attempts over the past 15 years.  There is simply no membership support to do it.  (And I can't say I blame them, since I can't explain how they would maintain the moguls in that green if we put it back.  The green was extremely controversial for good reason.)

Why don't you take up a petition to restore the green, and get back to me when you have 100 signatures (from members, not from this board)?  I've been stonewalling against them doing anything else to that green for so long, I'm lucky they haven't fired me by now.  After all, as you well know, a consultant can only do what the membership wants him to do.

Best wishes,
Tom Doak
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Hempstead Plain
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2002, 09:27:41 AM »
Tom Doak,

Due to your busy schedule and travels around the world you have probably forgotten or overlooked the fact that in the fall of 2000 the Green Committee gave you a clear directive to proceed with preparing a restoration plan for the 12th hole , which you presented in a rendering dated, December 2000.  You then did a complete turn around and presented a totally different plan dated May 2001, which bore a striking resemblance to your earlier plan dated, September 1998.

The greens committee was firmly behind a restoration, but your return to your original plan dated September 1998 killed or at least postponed the opportunity to restore this hole.

You may have also forgotten that we had solved the mound problem by moving them outside of the putting surface, a design change that you agreed with.

As to the membership, that's not your bailiwick or worry.

If the Green Committee had your full, NON-DILUTED support, together with the December 2000 rendering, I have every confidence that the project would have been approved by the membership, as recommended by the Green Committee and Board.

If you really wanted to do this, you would not have proposed half baked alternatives, and championed a true/sympathetic restoration as evidenced by your December 2000 rendering, only prepared, AFTER THE GREEN COMMITTEE GAVE YOU THE SPECIFIC DIRECTIONS TO DO SO.

In addition, at the time, the political alignment of the club, club officers and board was IDEAL.

Why wouldn't you champion a return in principle to the architecture evidenced by all of the photos from 1936 ?

Why have you resisted, and lost time, if not the opportunity ?

I'm tired of people asking, why hasn't the 12th hole been restored, but that doesn't mean that I abandon the effort.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Hempstead Plain
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2002, 06:32:50 PM »
Tom Doak,

I want to state that I haven't spoken to Jeff Mingay since his visit to GCGC and haven't influenced, prompted or encouraged him to say anything about GCGC.

I also want to state that my conversations with him prior to his visit were STRICTLY in the context of arranging his visit.
I did not influence, prompt or encourage him to discuss one aspect of GCGC.

He and he alone chose to create a thread, and HE brought up the 12th hole, not me.

Lastly, ask yourself this question.

Have I been ambivalent or consistently unwaivering in my support for a restoration of the 12th green ?  
Then ask yourself the same question.

The facts are, you are an architectural guru, you have published books, you are on retainer at well regarded golf courses.  You are a world renown architect, your work has been universally hailed, your influence at GCGC is substantial.
I have every reason to believe that if you proposed a true restoration, as you rendered in December 2000, and if you unequivicallly supported that restoration, to the exclusion of all pretenders, without any ambivalence, the 12th hole would be restored.

You're that good, and that talented, and if you had your heart, mind and gut set to doing the right thing, restoring the 12th hole, it would get done.

You have my support, and the support of others, JUST DO IT.

Garden City and all of golf will benefit from your efforts.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff Mingay

Re: The Hempstead Plain
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2002, 07:51:03 PM »
Geez, how did I instigate this?

I was merely trying to convey to the discussion group that Garden City Golf Club is brilliant... not that Tom Doak is foolish for not having yet restored the 12th green complex. No.

For the record, for whatever it's worth, I have never spoken to Pat Mucci in my life. Perhaps two emails, but never a vocal conversation. So he's quite right in saying he did NOT influence my opinion on the 12th hole.

I visited Garden City under the auspices of Ed Butler, as a guest of Phil Rosati.

Again, my intention with my original thread was only to convey the brilliance of this golfing haven, not to instigate a controversy about the 12th hole.

My apologies, if need be.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Hempstead Plain
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2002, 06:40:20 AM »
Jeff,

I'm glad you enjoyed Garden City.

No need to apologize, you didn't ask any question that a thousand people haven't already asked, and the question is honest and legitimate.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: The Hempstead Plain
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2002, 06:51:37 AM »
I don't want to stir up any trouble either but I thought this image of GCGC #12 from 1913 might be of interest to this discussion.  I don't have a current picture of #12.  The credit for the photo comes from "America's Linksland- A century of Long Island Golf" by Dr. Bill Quirin.

My guess is that this is the second shot for this fellow who layed up short of the front bunker.  Was this hole playing at 240 yards or so in 1913 or had it already been shortened to about 190?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »