Langford's work in N. Michigan

[mark chalfant]

Has anyone had  a chance to  play Langford's work at Marquette CC. if so, what are  some  of the  most interesting holes. Are there some bold green complexes or bunkering patterns ?    thanks

[Steve Lang]

 

just viewed it.. played greywalls out on the back 400..

looked like an ordinary course

[Brad Klein]

Rode it three years ago after playing DeVries' Greywalls that's a half mile away on the rock ridge owned by the same club.

Marquette GC's first 18-hole course is as schizophrenic as you can get, with 9 really wonderful old Langford-Moreau holes where all of the features have been faded, shrunk, and strangled with dopey conifers, interwoven with 9 unbearably dull David Gill-designed holes from 1967. What's obvious to anyone with half an eye to architecture is the mismatch of holes, and the extent to which the great L-M features have been allowed to become obscured. It would be an easy fix to recover them, and maybe a little more work to make the 9 brain-dead David Gill holes interesting. But last I heard while there it was not in their plans -- or even in their imagination. What a potential that place is.

[Dan Moore]

You could cut and paste Brad's description and use it for West Bend Country Club.  At WBCC David Gill added a 2nd 9 which also doesn't match the original L/M holes.  The good news is the fact many original L/M features are still evident and being brought back into play through a judicious tree removal plan and the Club has L/M's original plans for the 2nd 9.  

[Brian_Sleeman]

Not in their plans or imagination?  To whom have you spoken?

The idea for restoration has been there for three or four years now, and the current superintendent (Craig Moore) has the original Langford plans and has been removing trees one-by-one since he arrived on site a little over a year ago.  The plan is to do the little stuff like that over a period of time (and tackle bunkers at the same time), and eventually take on the much bigger project of restoring green sizes (tricky with the current irrigation system - sprinklerheads on the fringe now would end up inside the original green sizes).

The original Langford plans were for an entire 18-hole course, part of which is currently occupied by an adjacent neighborhood.  This means that a full restoration (including a complete re-do of the Gill holes) will call for additional interpretation of Langford's intents and some compromises since they can't completely put his original plans into the dirt.

But the plan is there, and your dopey conifer comment in the Golfweek review was a great description of a problem that needs to be dealt with, and I think did a good job of alerting several members to that fact.

By the way, people making the trek to Greywalls who are also interested in the Langford holes should make a point of stopping by Iron River Country Club in Iron River, also in the UP (just across the border from Wisconsin).  They don't realize what they have, but it's another Langford 9-hole layout that has added less trees than most and retained much more of the original features.  I highly recommend it, and of course it's dirt cheap.

Edit: By the way, I can post several photos of the Langford holes at Marquette later on.  The push-up Langford greens are boldly contoured and are easily identifiable to anyone playing the course trying to differentiate between those and the Gill greens.  

One thing which surprised me was that Langford had a 240-yard par three which has since become a 240-yard par four from the white tees and a 280-yard par four from the blues.  This is due in part to the shrinking of the green, but in an age where short par fours and fives are becoming par threes and fours, can anyone else think of a classic era hole which has not added much length (if any) but added a stroke to par?

[Dan Moore]

Brian,  That is good news.  Did Iron River also include a plan for 18 holes?  Thanks.  

[Brian_Sleeman]

I haven't seen the plans for Iron River CC, but I've played it, and I can't imagine they ever had enough property for 18.  Iron River used to be a big resort and mining town in the early half of the 20th century, so what is currently forest now may have been intended for an additional 9, but that question may never have an answer.  They currently have two separate tee angles set up on each hole so that one can play "18," but you're essentially playing all the same holes twice.

I'll try to get a scan of the original Langford plans for Marquette put up in the future, too.  I think they were acquired from Ron Whitten.

[Brad Klein]

Brian, at times like this it's a pleasure to be wrong -- or at least to hear that what I learned while there is no longer the case.

[Chris_Blakely]

Iron River CC is definetly worth a play if you are in the area.  The course appears to be untouched.  There are several very good holes there and some wild built up Langford greens.  C&W list this as a Langford solo course and from what I have seen on the ground when I played it, it makes sense.  As I understand Langford & Moreau's set up, Moreau was the field representation.  Iron River seems to have less extreme/built up greens that some of the courses that C&W list as L&M. Most likely because the field representation was not constantly there. This is also the case of a Langford (solo) course that I have played in eastern Indiana.  Even with greens that are not as wild / built-up as many of the other L&M courses, it is worth a play if in the area.