New NGLA - Shinnecock neighbor ?

[Mike Sweeney]

Nicklaus   If there is ever a site that cries out for Tom Doak, this is  it.

Tom Doak,

Where is my sales commission check?  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tim,

I had heard that a fairly thorough search was conducted before settling on the NGLA property, but perhaps others more skilled at research could provide an in depth answer.

MacDonald wrote the following.

"... there happened to be some 450 acres of land on Sebonac Neck, having a mile frontage on Peconic Bay and lying between Cold Spring Harbor and Bull's Head Bay.

That's the current NGLA AND Sebonack property
View Google Earth to confirm.[/b]

This property was little known and had never been surveyed.
Every one thought it more or less worthless.  It abounded in bogs and swamps and was covered with an entanglement of bayberry, huckleberry, blackberry, and other bushes and was infested by insects.  The only way one could get over the ground was on ponies.  So Jim Whigham and myself spent two or three days riding over it, studying the countours of the ground.  Finally we determined that was what we wanted, providing we could get it reasonably.  It adjoined the Shinnecock Hills Golf Course.  The company agreed to sell us [size=4x] 205 acres,[/size] and we were permitted to locate it as best to serve our purpose."

... We had a little over a quarter of a mile frontage on Peconic Bay ...."

This would confirm that the original parcel of 450 acres was both NGLA and Sebonac, as CBM originally wrote that a mile of frontage of the 450 acres was on Peconic Bay.

Since NGLA only has a quarter of a mile of frontage, the balance would be the property to the west, which became Bayberry and is now Sebonack.[/color]

"We obtained the land in November, 1906."


The Sabins wouldn't even see the land that became known as Bayberry until 1916, ten years after CBM purchased what he felt were the most desirable acres for golf.[/color]


I hope that clears up some questions that were posed.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike Sweeney:

I've had about 25 people swear to me that they are the guy who recommended me to Michael Pascucci for the job at Sebonack.  I appreciate each and every one of those recommendations.  

I was contacted about the job in December, 2002.  However, Michael gives the credit for recommending me to Johann Rupert, and luckily Johann doesn't need the commission.

[TEPaul]

"I've had about 25 people swear to me that they are the guy who recommended me to Michael Pascucci for the job at Sebonack.  I appreciate each and every one of those recommendations."

TomD:

25 people recommended you to Mike Pascucci for the job at Sebonak? Wow, that's very impressive. How could you not have gotten the job with that many recommendations?    

[james soper]

tom or anyone in the know, speaking of commisssions or finders fees, do they exist in your business? curious because i'm looking at several sandy parcels in south florida that could be ideal for a private golf retreat.

[Mark Hissey]

Mike Sweeney:

I've had about 25 people swear to me that they are the guy who recommended me to Michael Pascucci for the job at Sebonack.  I appreciate each and every one of those recommendations.  

I was contacted about the job in December, 2002.  However, Michael gives the credit for recommending me to Johann Rupert, and luckily Johann doesn't need the commission.

Tom. I can assure you that I was the first, and the one who made something happen. I was also the one who made that first call to you. Feel free to correct anyone who claims otherwise.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

Your post #26 is a good one.

It always occured to me that Macdonald explained in his book that the entire property of what is now NGLA and Sebonack (450 acres) was for sale and available to him in 1905-1906.

Macdonald bought 205 acres of that 450 acres which is NGLA. Apparently he didn't buy more because he (and Whigam) apparently liked the land for a golf course (what is now NLGA) the best of the available 450 acres. It also appears from Macdonald's book that he didn't have the money to buy the entire property in 1906.

As George Bahto said on here in 2002 Macdonald did try to buy Shinnecock first but that didn't work. George also said that the remaining land that is now Sebonack was not available to Macdonald in 1905-1906. He seems to imply Charles Sabin owned it.

I very much doubt that. As you said Sabin didn't buy that land until 1916. Charles Sabin was also mentioned by Macdonald as one of the few people who orginally helped him with NGLA.

It appears Sabin became familiar with that land (the entire 450 acres) around the time Macdonald did. Macdonald also said he couldn't really afford to buy more land in 1906.

Apparently Sabin just ended up buying the remainder of that 450 acres later and turning it into his 245 acres estate that later became Sebonack.

The point is Macdonald/and NGLA had the opportunity three times to buy that land that is now Sebonack----eg in 1906, in the 1950s when Mrs Sabin sold it to the Electrical Union and when the Electrical Union sold it around 2002.

[Mark Hissey]

From what I gather, Sabin pieced the land together in a holding entity and then sold it to himself. There were a number of farms there which he gradually purchased.

There was also a good amount of smuggling that went on around there years ago. Sebonac Neck was notorious for it.

[JESII]

I am sure frequesnt write-ups are in the archives here, but tell me - those of you in the know - what was the end result of the quest for an organic golf course? What obstacles were in place after approval was received? How were these obstacles overcome? Now that it is complete and the reviews are in, would you change anything in the process? Do the environmental provisions add tremendously to the expense of water and chemical management as compared to what would be done without them?

[Patrick_Mucci]

JES II,

You may recall that Tom Doak indicated a preference for push up greens, but that his desire was overridden by the environmental requirement to recapture the irrigation water.

From what little I know, I had understood that presenting an organically maintained golf course was one of the selling points in trying to get the early approvals for the golf course.

I'm sure that Mark Hissey and TD can elaborate

[Mark Hissey]

That's correct Pat. There was an overwhelming desire for the Town of Southampton to have an even more environmentally friendly golf course than the Bridge.

So we were mandated to line our greens. Unlike the Vineyard Club and The Preserve whi lined the greens with PVC, we were required to line the greens with HDPE which was much more difficult to work with. There actually was a fear that the PVC would degrade and so we had to use an almost unworkable product. But, we managed it.

The push up greens wuld have been nice and would have certainly been practical from a golf standpoint. But, they were a non-starter from the Town and in addition, Jack and our Superintendent wanted USGA spec greens. It was a compromise for Tom obviously, but in the big picture, it wasn't one that made a huge difference to us.