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Tom Doak

Re: Did all modern day architects flunk geometry
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2002, 06:29:13 AM »
Tom P:

Jim Urbina was telling me he went over and peeked at Chechessee Creek while he was on vacation last month, and Bill and Ben had gone for the old-style geometry there, with square plateau greens (slightly rounded corners) and squarish bunkers.

Which is okay for variety's sake, if that's what you want to do.  Personally, I'd have to have a fairly flat and boring site to consider that style.  I'd rather make everything look natural if I can.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Did all modern day architects flunk geometry
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2002, 09:05:36 AM »
TEPaul,

Well...... if the beer and melon boys are utilizing that style,
you must now champion and defend geometric architecture;D

Two points that Tom Doak brought up are interesting.
The consideration of geometric architecture on flat sites
The muting of straight lines by the use of grasses in the rough

Quoque, GCGC, CGC and what other sites would be candidates for geometric bunkers, circular or rectangular.

What modern day greens are the hole in the doughnut, surrounded by a circular bunker ?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Did all modern day architects flunk geometry
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2002, 09:50:02 AM »
Pat:

I wouldn't matter to me if Coore and Crenshaw or anyone else did squarish or so-called geometric shapes in the design of a course today.

All I've ever said about it or tried to say about it is that it indicates to me no more really than a particular era (and style of that era) in the evolution of early architecture!

It's not lost on me and shouldn't be on you either that GCGC has much of that same "squarishness" in many of its architectural features! Why? Simply because GCGC is basically from the same era in the evolution of architecture that NGLA is!!

And furthermore, I've definitely never said I didn't like that early style either, despite what you might think about what I've said about the extremely natural lines and style of almost all architectural features that would be best exemplified by say Cypress Point!

It's all just that I appreciate those styles primarily in the context of the era they came from and I believe that golf architecture had simply not come remotely close to reaching that extremely natural lined architectural style when NGLA was created (1910) and GCGC (earlier) but that Cypress Point was very much from that era that had reached and probably perfected that natural lined style which was in the 1920s!

As for Chechessee, which I've never seen and why Coore & Crenshaw did "squarish" features there, I don't know and I've never asked them but I believe I will. If I had to guess at this point, though, I might say they did it simply because they are students of the history and evolution of architecture, and extremely good students, and they simply might have felt like paying homage to a particular style and era and the feature style of it!

That would be no different at all than what they did at Hidden Creek which was to create bunkering that sort of pops out of the flattish site, and doesn't particularly flow with the natural "lines" of that site as well as other things they've done elsewhere! Anyone who knows their basically "naturalistic" style would wonder why they did that at Hidden Creek. I wondered too and asked about that. I was told that the golf course was basically a "heathland" adaptation in New Jersey because the site reminded them of a heathland look so they basically paid homage to the very early "heathland" style and look by doing bunkers that looked like that early era! "Ridgy" was the way they were described and explained to me!

But as to what to do today and where that "squarish" (geometric) style might fit best, I just couldn't agree more with what Tom Doak just said above!

If you're going to do it at all, whether paying homage to something or simply reprising an early look and style it would be best to really pick your sites, and as he said, doing it on a flat site would probably be best, the kind of site that has things like flat horizon lines and such simply because that "squarish" style would seem to fit better in that atmosphere and consequently look more natural and fit better in that kind of overall site!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:09 PM by -1 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Did all modern day architects flunk geometry
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2002, 09:57:28 AM »
TEPaul,

Doesn't the fact that GCGC, CGC and NGLA have lasted and been appreciated for so long, seem to validate the architecture, including the geometric aspects ?

Shouldn't that be an ongoing template ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Did all modern day architects flunk geometry
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2002, 11:04:39 AM »
There are plently of straight lines and angles found in nature. One of the problems with a great deal of modern design - with its roots in LArch - is that it realies too much on the idea that flowing curve is representative of nature. Nature contains plenty odd little angles in combination with curves.

The reason the courses of Raynor/Macdonald and the others work so well is largely because of their ability to utilize natural features. Those angular features would not work if they were not contrasted by the outstanding natural features of the given site.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »