[Bill Shamleffer]

I only saw Harrington and Dredge play 18 twice today.  (The only play-off hole played was 18, with Harrington winning.)  Is this hole as bad as it seemed on TV?  It appeared that the strategy for these two was to hit the tee shot into the right rough, then play a lay-up to a fairway sloping right to left toward the water to the right and which will not hold the lay-up shot so that the third shot - approach to the green - was to be played from the right rough across the water to an elevated green and with the ball above the feet.

And this was considered by both players to be the INTENDED way to play this hole!?!  What type of hole design expects two tied for the lead to want to play the following shots: 1. bail right, 2. lay-up impossible to stay in fairway, 3.approach from rough?

The only thing a gathered from my viewing is that this course (I do not know what course) was designed by Jones (I do not know which).

This hole design, based upon my TV viewing, appeared to be so bad that it was worse than my attempt to describe it in this post.

Has anyone on this site played this hole, and if so can you please explain if I was missing something?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

The tournament was played at Adare Manor (RTJ Sr.).  I thought it was interesting to hear the commentary on how they thought the hole should be changed for the tournament next year.  While one suggested adding trees or perhaps bunkers close along the right side of the fairway off the tee the other suggested making the fairway wider providing an opportunity to take driver off the tee and challenge the green in two.

The 18th was aesthetically beautiful but an architectural disaster in my opinion.

[Bill Shamleffer]

The tournament was played at Adare Manor (RTJ Sr.).  I thought it was interesting to hear the commentary on how they thought the hole should be changed for the tournament next year.  While one suggested adding trees or perhaps bunkers close along the right side of the fairway off the tee the other suggested making the fairway wider providing an opportunity to take driver off the tee and challenge the green in two.

The 18th was aesthetically beautiful but an architectural disaster in my opinion.

I did hear that discussion about what changes to consider for next year.  From my limited perspective I preferred the idea of just widening the fairway.  Let them hit a GOLF SHOT, a REAL GOLF SHOT!  I would much rather see drivers off the tee rather than that joke of an excuse of championship 72nd hole golf I saw the players forced into.

[Ally Mcintosh]

i'm glad i agree with these comments... all i heard from the commentary team on irish television (including alex hay and dougie donnelly) was how magnificent a finishing hole it was and that RTJ had considered it the best 18th he had ever designed...

in it's favour, it was very windy... in normal conditions i guess the risk reward of taking on the green in two would be much more of an option... however the green complex looked so surrounded by trouble that i wouldn't fancy it myself...

why oh why do we not see the irish open on links courses anymore?... ok, we have seen it at baltray and portmarnock recently enough but still... it's a shame...

[D_Malley]

funny your description of this hole sounds very similar to the way the 18th hole (535 yard, par 5) at my club plays for an accomplished player.  although you do not have to play out of the rough.

for the more typical player it does not play like the above description at all.  in fact most people love this hole.

[mike_malone]

 I started a thread with this exact thought . I'm glad to see other gca ers picked up on the silliness of this hole. Maybe RTJ. did not intend the trees on the right.

[JNagle]

I was watching the Tourney prior to the weekend rounds and found the commnetators discussing the rough.  They both were very much against the height of cut and the fact that it took away many options around the greens.  Single file golf.  They were discussing the need to combat the long hitters, but felt that the excessive rough cut was not the answer.

[mike_malone]

 RG,

   #18 at Paxon is much better then this hole. At Adare these good players intentionally aimed into the rough on the right because the slope of the landing zone would just propel their ball into the water. If they went too far right then they had a line of trees that thwarted any attempts to advance the ball down the right side of the fairway. I think there is plenty of flat area at Paxon for the drive. One can CHOOSE to take the dangerous route down the left near the water. Plus the trees on the right are quite far off line.

   The second shot at Paxon does have that severe left to right slope , but it doesn't cause a bouncing ball in the fairway to head into the water hazard. #18 at Paxon is a blast because one believes they may be able to get far enough up near the green to be beyond the most severe part of that slope.

  #18 at Paxon then ends with that great two tiered green.

    Adare #18 seemed to require a 6 iron layup from the right rough that could hardly be stopped in the fairway.


   They are quite different---Paxon's rocks! Adare's sucks!


 BTW this comes from someone who only shot par once in his life, at Paxon. And I bogeyed #18 !

[mike_malone]

 BTW Harrington hit a lesser wood than driver in regulation. It held the fairway, and he still couldn't keep his layup in the fairway. So. I imagine that is why he hit driver in the playoff. Possibly he was thinking that he may get lucky and be able to go for it in two.

[D_Malley]

i play paxon 18 with a 3 or 4 iron off the tee and then a layup with anywhere from a 5iron to a 7iron, so i can hit the approach from about 120-130 out.  

most people take the bait with the second shot and try to get too close to the green where the left to right slope takes them into the right rough with a tree and bunker between their ball and the hole.  could this of been what happened to you mayday?

[mike_malone]

RG,

 I think I just awoke from my dream!

[Tim Pitner]

why oh why do we not see the irish open on links courses anymore?... ok, we have seen it at baltray and portmarnock recently enough but still... it's a shame...

The same could be asked of the Scottish Open (although I remember a rumor that it was going to be moved from one Lyle Anderson course, Loch Lomond, to another, Dundonald).  

I recall that the Irish Open was played at Ballybunion not that ago and was less than a success--bad weather, poor crowds, and not a marquee winner (Patrick Sjoland).  I'm sure logistics and attendance has a lot to do with why links are now disfavored.  

It is too bad though.  I'd much rather see a tournament played at Portmarnock, Baltray or another links course than one at Adare or Carton House.  I will say that I attended an Irish Open at Druid's Glen several years ago and, while the course looked only okay, it was a very pleasant setting.  

[mike_malone]

 I remember that Ballybunion changed the routing to keep the gallery away from the dunes. I wonder how this may have affected the interest in attending the event.

[Evan_Smith]

I too wish more links courses were played on the EPGA.  I'm definitely watching this year's Dutch Open because it's being played on a links.  I may even tape it so I can watch it over and become more familiar with the course.  I very rarely watch the European tour (mostly because I'm not around in the mornings) and unless the tournament is exciting or on a great course I don't watch the PGA Tour anymore either.

The remark about the spectators not walking around in the dunes is probably a main reason that the great links courses don't want the tournament.  In a thread about what great courses we'd like to see host the Open, somebody pointed out the RCD wouldn't want it because the whins would get trampled.  I agree that this was probably a good reason.  The Walker Cup crowds will be much smaller than an Open.

There are other courses that could host this tournament that don't have to worry about large dunes and whins, but are still great links courses.  Rosses Point comes to mind, as does Castlerock (it's the Irish Open, not the Republic of Ireland Open) and although I haven't played it, Murvagh would seem to fit the bill here as well.  And with Baltray and Portmarnock already hosting sucessful events, I would think that you could have a rota of these courses along with a mix of the parkland courses and have a very exciting tournament every year.  It would also spread the tournament around the country which it should, because again it's the Irish Open, not the Dublin Area Open.  

[Ally Mcintosh]

one thing i've always thought they should do is jig the calendar around so that you get the irish followed by the scottish followed by the open followed by the dutch... you could then have a little mini-links calendar in the middle of the summer with all the best players warming up at the irish and scottish...

...this theory falls down of course when you realise that the scottish IS played the week before the open and it's held on an inland course  

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