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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Country Club of Brookline
« on: May 09, 2007, 06:51:43 PM »
Hey all,

Other than Ran's great review on this site, does anyone know of a good review of The Country Club in Brookline? I am going to be out there this weekend and am eager to learn a little bit about each individual hole before I see it.

How does the member course compare to the Open course that you see in Ryder Cup and US Open highlights?

Thanks, sorry for the broad post, I just don't know much about The Country Club and am eager to learn more!

Regards,

 Pat
H.P.S.

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2007, 07:05:36 PM »
Differences between the Open/Ryder Cup course and the members course:

--#2 plays as a short par 4 instead of a mid-length par 3. Very good par 3-and-a-half hole with a choice of options off the tee.

--#9 and #10 on the members course are not part of the championship course. #9 is a longish par 4 with a tricky tee shot to a very sloping (over one rise, down to a valley and then uphill again), somewhat narrow fairway and then an even trickier shot to a blind target that runs slightly away from you in the landing area short of the green, with a steep bunker left and a big drop-off several paces beyond the green. Tough hole; one many people seem to like, but not one which warms my cockles. #10 is a drive-and-pitch par-4 to a blind target (mostly hidden by a bump about 20 yards short of the green, and trees to the right of the bump). Check the pin location on #10 from #9 tee.

--#11 (members) and #9 (championship) are the same hole - great par 5, one of my favorite in the Northeaset.

--#12 (members) isn't on the championship course - it's a short, dropshot par 3 to a tiny, sloping push-up green. From most tee locations, the green is actually hidden from view by the tee itself. Hit the green and you're golden; anywhere else, good luck with the recovery! Nicklaus is reputed to have called this the best hole on the property, but during the Open/Ryder you walk right past it to get to...

--#13 (members) and #10 (championship) are the same hole.

That brings you to #14-#18, which are the same on both courses. You miss out on championship holes #11-#12-#13, which are all interesting but aren't *that* much better than what you get to play on the members course.  

All in all, TCC is one of my favorite places - I was hugely lucky to play my college golf at Harvard and thereby got to play the course well over 50 times. It's a real outpost of New England scenery virtually in the center of the near-Boston suburbs; my favorite holes are probably #2, #3, #5, #6, #7, #11, #13, #14, #17 and #18, a list which is long enough to highlight just what I think of the place! It's at its most beautiful when the fall foliage is out...I think my favorite tree in the entire world sits to the right of #2 green, a huge oak which turns a brilliant red-orange in the autumn. Say hi to it for me! :)

Cheers,
Darren

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2007, 11:32:49 AM »
Solid report Darren.

I would add that #3 is a very tough long par four with a crazily twisting fairway.  On my first play, I had no idea what to do from this tee.

My round there last year was perhaps the best of the whole year...great playing partners, played well, perfect weather, and I lived about 5 min. away at the time.  I made a 30-footer for birdie on 17 on top of our opponents' birdie, and tried to hold back the urge to dance around like the Ryder Cup in '99.... :)

Make sure you spend some time hanging around the clubhouse buildings and the locker room.  It's like a college campus.

The members-course holes (Francis Ouimet won over these holes in 1913):

1-  Long par 4, 440, dogleg left around the driving range.  Straightforward.
2-  Short par 4, 310, slight dogleg left.  As Darren said, many options here to this small green.
3-  Long par 4, 440, aim right of where you think, as you can be blocked out by the far hillside.  An idyllic greensite in front of the club's skating pond/house.
4-  Short par 4, 330, dogleg left downhill, layup out to the right, or try to blast a shot over the trees to in front of this tiny, sloping green.
5-  Longish par 4, 420, dogleg slightly right, can go through the fairway straightaway.  This green slopes hard right to left and back to front.
6-  Short par 4 uphill of 320 yards.  The wedge shot is blind up the hill.  I made an eagle here on my first play!
7-  Great plateau par 3 of about 195.  The green sits on an interesting angle, and is one of the relics from the original 19th century layout.
8-  Medium par 4 of 390ish.  Downhill drive to a fairway that climbs to the green.  Pretty uneventful.
9-  Long 4 of 420 as Darren said.  They use this hole as the driving range during big tourneys.  The drive lands on an uphill slope, and the approach is blind to a flat green.
10-  Short 4 of about 300.  The green is protected by a 10-ft tall mound.  This hole isn't used on the composite.
11-  Great par 5 of 525, playing over a rock ledge.  Choices off the tee:  Drive left around the rock dropoff to a narrow fairway, or go over the cliff, risking an unplayable lie or rough.  The green is elevated and fronted by bunkers.
12-  Short par 3 of 125, plateau green that is a must-hit.  They don't use the hole now for tournaments, but a fun hole.
13-  Elegant dogleg right par 4 of about 410 to a hard back to front green.
14-  Long par 5 of 540, the tee shot plays over an old quarry crater.  The hole rolls up and down before climbing to a flattish green.
15-  The beginning of a great finish.  A downhill drive to this 420-yd par four that plays mostly in the meadow around the clubhouse.
16-  Semi-blind par 3 of about 170, deep bunkers front the green.  The hole is built into a tiny corner of the property.
17-  Wonderful dogleg left par four of about 370.  The green is two-tiered, with several great pinnable pockets.
18-  Long par four of 430, slight dogleg left played to the famous green benched into the short hillside below the clubhouse.  Don't be short, as there are deep fronting bunkers.  A great finishing hole, as the drive must be solid, and the approach strong and high.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 11:48:20 AM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

TEPaul

Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2007, 12:33:49 PM »
Ask Wayne Morrison about the design evolution of Brookline. I think he knows more about that golf course than anyone who belongs to it.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2007, 03:29:12 PM »
I played The Composite Course for the first time last year and thought it was awesome. I loved how they compined the short par 4 and par 3 to make a brutal par 4 and then the next hole is a tough, uphill par 4 that plays as a par 5 for members. TCC was the golfing surprise of 2006 for me and the clubhouse is great too.
Mr Hurricane

wsmorrison

Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2007, 04:26:06 PM »
The design evolution is very complicated.  Tom Paul once had it memorized but I doubt there is any recollection any longer.  His mind, like his shoulder, is not what it once was.  I guess that leaves me as the one who knows the course best.  I'd be happy to share.  Send me an IM.

TEPaul

Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 05:11:19 PM »
"Tom Paul once had it memorized but I doubt there is any recollection any longer.  His mind, like his shoulder, is not what it once was."

That's true the old mind isn't what it once was---it seems to get better and better as the years go by, particularly since I've been able to spice it up with just the right amount of good old fashioned eccentricity.

And I don't know what happened to me yesterday during a very rare visit to a bona fide mall but I will never again dress in conventional American clothes. Yesterday I bought about 50 traditional Chinese suits, about half of them with some very cool dragons and stuff embroidered on them. The proprietor told me they're called Kung Fu suits but I don't believe him.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2007, 05:40:27 PM »
Brad, Darren, and everyone,

Thanks for your great posts! I am going to be out there tomorrow and can not wait for my first visit. However I am trying to use Brad's descriptions to point out particular holes on google earth, to no avail.

Could anyone possibly write the corresponding hole numbers on a google earth map and post them on here?

Thanks!
H.P.S.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2007, 06:12:51 PM »
The 3rd hole and the Himalayas par 4 (11?) are 2 of the coolest holes around...

Here's the front - sorry, brainfarted on the 5th...


rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 06:21:03 PM »
Here's the back with the last 4 filled in - I get a little mixed up looking at these for the beginning of the back nine (though I remember the shots from ground level)


Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2007, 07:38:19 PM »
Does anyone have a friend who is a CCB member? - this enquiry is not for access purposes. But to do with shared history between clubs. Any help appreciated.
Cave Nil Vino

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2007, 07:43:03 PM »
Pat Craig,

I've never understood how a golf course that's so radically gerrymandered can be rated so high.


Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2007, 08:48:01 PM »
Pat -

To understand it, you must play the Open Course !

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2007, 09:20:26 PM »
Willie Dow,

I have, and I still don't understand it.

How can you give such lofty rating to a golf course that doesn't exist for routine play ?

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2007, 09:42:29 PM »
Why ?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2007, 09:57:37 PM »
The only time I played at Brookline was when I was still a freshman at MIT in 1979, with one foot out the door.  I wrote to a couple of clubs around Boston expressing my interest in golf architecture, and the one response I got was from the green chairman of The Country Club, the late Charlie Pyle, an extremely well-respected figure in Boston-area golf.  

He invited me to play the course as his guest that spring, so I took a friend from school and headed out to Brookline on the T, walking the last mile or two to the club.  Since we were early in the season and there was hardly anyone out, they allowed me to play the Composite Course.  One of the oddest sensations I've ever had in golf was playing to the Composite 11th by hitting over the green of the par-4 first half (with the flag still in) and over the pond toward the distant green.

It was my first day as an "official" student of golf architecture (though I had played many good golf courses previously) and it remains a special memory.  And, I can vouch for the fact that the course wasn't too shabby even before Rees Jones restored it.

wsmorrison

Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2007, 10:07:01 PM »
Tom,

Interesting you say that the course holds a special place in your memory.  Ben Crenshaw played his first golf outside of Texas at a junior event at TCC and told me that it awakened his interest in golf architecure.  It too remains a very special memory to him, though the 1999 Ryder Cup added greatly to his fondness for the club.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2007, 06:34:06 AM by Wayne Morrison »

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2007, 06:46:17 AM »
Funny you should say that, Wayne...when I was a student in St. Andrews I covered the Dunhill Cup and spoke to Ben Crenshaw there, inviting him back to TCC in advance of the Ryder Cup to play with the Harvard team after I'd returned to Boston. He sounded really pleased with the invitation; I guess it sorta slipped off of both of our radar screens, though, and it's a great regret of mine that I never followed through with him (by trying to contact him or his agent, etc.) to make that invitation come good.

Cheers,
Darren

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2007, 09:41:33 AM »
On Ryan's back 9 aerial....

#10 is the short dogleg left fairway, and green over a bunker...located directly below the interlocked black squares representing the pool at the bottom of the clubhouse complex.

#11 is the fairway at the lower left of the pic, twisting offscreen.

#12 is left of this view, so you can't see it.  It's a short par 3 back towards the clubhouse.

#13 is the dogleg right with front bunkers adjacent to the top of the long skinny pond at lower left.

#14 is the long hole to the adjacent left of the clubhouse complex.

The holes in the upper left are the Primrose 9, some of them are used in the composite, as stated.  I have never played those holes.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2007, 10:03:08 AM »
Here's all 27 in one:


which was AOTD #191

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2007, 10:36:24 AM »
Yeah, Brad, but where's the curling rink located? :)

"Primrose" used to be my least favorite word - we'd get out to TCC on a nice day and be brimming to play "The Big Course", but an abundance of members in the area and we'd check with the starter and get the big Primrose wave-off. Not that the Primrose nine is terribly bad in and of itself, but it was always in lesser shape - even the Open/composite holes weren't maintained to the same standard as The Big Course - and really does feel like a little sister rather than an equal partner to the rest of the property. And trying to hit a draw through the narrow chute of trees as your first swing of the day on Primrose #1 (Open #11, but to the green on the near side of the lake) isn't exactly a confidence-building beginning...

Cheers,
Darren

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2007, 11:06:50 AM »
I think the Curling rink is the white-roofed square building next to the tennis courts, but it might be one of the other ones...I think it may have been rebuilt in recent years...

Another interesting story was the fact they had to erect an enormous metal arm over the pool to support an enormous net protecting it from golf balls (you can see the arm over the pool on Ryan's aerial of the back 9).  Apparently a couple 300-yard slices ended up in the water a few years back.  Standing on the 14th tee, it's tough to comprehend a ball being hit over there, but the likelihood was high enough to build the arm and net for more than a million $$, I believe.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2007, 11:07:31 AM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

John Sabino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Country Club of Brookline
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2007, 11:40:02 AM »
Pat - a bit on architecture, and a bit of non-architecture. Joe

http://top100golf.blogspot.com/2006/10/country-club-at-brookline.html
Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

http://www.top100golf.blogspot.com/