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Mike_Duffy

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Anyone know about these guys?
« on: September 11, 2002, 04:24:08 PM »
I have been invited to play a couple or rounds with an old mate of mine in Thailand in the near future.

One course has been designed by Max Wexler (Palm Hills Golf and Country Club) and another by Roger Packard (Imperial Lake View Golf Club).

As I know nothing of either gentleman, would anyone know of the aforementioned and if so, what is the considered opinion of their previous works, if any?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom Doak

Re: Anyone know about these guys?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2002, 05:12:24 PM »
Mike:

Roger Packard is a second-generation architect; his father, Larry Packard worked for Robert Bruce Harris in the 1950's and went on to do several notable courses including Innisbrook in Fla.  Roger has been doing them on his own for twenty years or more, and has done some courses in conjunction with Andy North.

I've never heard of Max Wexler!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

bm

Re: Anyone know about these guys?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2002, 06:48:48 PM »
Mike,

On the condition of anonymity  ;), let me tell you a story about Max Wexler and how/why he became a GC designer.

Max was the contruction superintendant on a Fream course in Indonesia called Jagowari - or was is a Thomson, Wolveridge, Fream & Storm course - never mind. Max saw how Ron Fream would come to site and just spend the whole time taking photos, not doing any actual work. Max thought, what a lark, I can do this  ;D, so next thing you know he is a course designer.

He timed it beautifully and landed plenty of jobs during the intial upsurge in courses in SE Asia.

Max has done a number of courses throughout Asia, most concentrated in Singapore (where they are being progressively rebuilt) and Malaysia. I guess Max would be the anti-hands on architect cause he did a course in Singapore (called SAFRA) which he visited twice during contruction (27 holes). The funny thing is he would have had to drive right past the course every time he went to go jump on a plane. I spoke with the client and they said they didnt want him to visit - and when he did he never changed anything or said anything much. They would say something about changing the grass on the greens and he would say "whatever, its your money".

The best thing you could say about Max's courses is that they drain - and they dont always do that. Greens are flat, bunkers are flat and fairways are flat so at least the local supers can mow everything pretty easy.

Max is a nice guy with a good taste in floral shirts!

Not sure if he is still alive, last I heard he had retired down at Jagowawi with health problems.

I would not expect anything much of either course - if you want some recommendations for some better courses in Thailand - and there are plenty of better ones, let me know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Anyone know about these guys?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2002, 07:51:14 PM »
My exposure to Roger Packard has been on several courses here in the Midwest...mostly in the Chicagoland area.  He also did some design work with Andy North, right here near Dubuque at Eagle Ridge Inn & Resort...their course called "The General".

Overall, I like his designs/layouts, but nothing that would really blow me away.  bunkering has been good (that I can remember), and he has taken his shot at a few of the more "classic" hole designs, like a Biarritz green at the Prairie Vista Golf Course in Bloomington, IL.

That's about all I can remember of his designs off the top of my head.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Anyone know about these guys?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2002, 07:18:31 AM »
My home course was done by his Dad, with Roger just starting to work with him.  It is very good.  Also a number of other courses in this area were done in the late 60-70s by the two and are good.  His work with Andy North has also been good.  He did the 3rd nine on a previous RTJsr in Spring Green that is good.  He also has done remodelling of greens and surrounds at a number of holes at Brown Deer, the site of the Greater Milwaukee Open which I would characterise as good work.  Notice I didn't say great.  But, solid work non-the-less.  

What he would do in the regions of the tropics, I have no idea as I would imagine the style of bunkering that he and his Dad practice is very much in the tradition of RB Harris, and that doesn't seem to me to be what might work in the tropics.  But, I certainly am not qualified to speak to that factually.  

I'll ask a mate in our mens club today, since he goes to Thailand for 3 months every winter...and will report to you on e-mail if I hear more.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mike_Duffy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Anyone know about these guys?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2002, 03:52:00 PM »
Thank you Tom, Moth, Evan and Dick for your replies.

After taking in the comments I'm more inclinced to play the Packard course, as I'm always interested in playing courses designed by architects whose work I'm not familiar with.

Following Moth's reply I will give the Wexler course a wide berth, as I can't stand laziness or indifference in any form, and Mr Wexler would seem to fall into both categories.

I would look forward to your emails Dick and Moth regarding GOOD courses to play in Thailand, around the Hua Hin and Cha Am areas on the Gulf of Siam and more particularly courses within 60 mintues of Bangkok. For anyone who has been to that most congested of cities the import of that should be readily apparent!!!!!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

willhammer (Guest)

Re: Anyone know about these guys?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2002, 07:43:33 PM »
RJ
I disagree re: Roger Packard as it relates to Spring Green, though I am not sure I would blame him for the poor third nine there.
The original 18 is a worthwhile venture, but the third nine is a downright torture chamber. I think my driver, laid horizontally on the ground, can touch out of bounds both right and left of every hole.
RP may not have had the real estate to work with to make a playable course.
I played 27 there on a Sunday morning after a wonderfull Saturday evening at the American Players Theater (is that what it was called?) with my then girlfriend. Anyway, for anyone who wants to pretend to take their wife/girlfriend on a nice weekend and still sneak in some golf, check this place out.
P.S. I have the same feeling re: Packard and North on "The General" at Eagle Ridge. Way to tight.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Anyone know about these guys?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2002, 08:33:45 PM »
Will,

I don't think that The General is overly tight.  There seems to be plenty of room for play, but the high native grasses surrounding many of the fairways does leave little room for error.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Anyone know about these guys?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2002, 09:08:18 PM »
Will, I guess I should have made note that I last played Spring Green about 12 years ago, and before I got so deeply into our little GCA passion.  My taste and eye for GCA may have been less discerning. :-/

Mike I am going to e-mail you that fellow's email address that he gave me to forward.  He knows a number of courses there, but I got them bollicksed up this afternoon when he was telling me after golf and too many brewskis'  :P  You can ask him directly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Anyone know about these guys?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2002, 08:48:38 AM »
Dave, I also have heard good things said about Big Foot, a Bendelow original from 1903.   No doubt Nuggent, then Packard, with Wadsworth Const. pounded most of the quaint old stuff out of the design, but for the blindshots.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

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